Re: Mind's Eye Re: Science and religion in modernity

I'd like to think about this further- maybe forever! I hoped to
encourage you not to be discouraged. Perhaps there is something you
can tweak or rearrange to suit your own standards- sometimes a break
will give a writer/artist a new insight or twist to suit his purpose
or logic and is easily fixed- or sometimes the entire work collapses
(am thinking of my past lyric poem attempts or the stubborn canvases,
etc.) But there is also the reader to consider in the exchange who
might not even notice or care about what you consider imperfect. It
has been said Goethe was the last mortal who could coast at ease
through human knowledge of his time- and who reads Goethe these
days? :-)

On Nov 2, 5:54 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But it's not impossible rigsy.
>
> On 1 Nov, 14:54, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Literature tries to be tidy but life is not so something is always
> > "wanting".
>
> > On Nov 1, 7:47 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > MIT have a current exhibition that seems to get somewhere near my
> > > interest -http://arts.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/Holocene-PR-Final.pdf
>
> > > This is some of the blurb -
>
> > > Through the work of artists spanning from the 19th to the 21st
> > > centuries, the exhibition proposes that art acts as an investigative
> > > and experimental form of inquiry, addressing or amending what is
> > > explained through traditional scientific or
> > > mathematical means: entropy, matter, time (cosmic, geological),
> > > energy, topology, mimicry, perception,
> > > consciousness, et cetera. Sometimes employing scientific methodologies
> > > or the epistemology of science, other
> > > times investigating phenomena not restricted to any scientific
> > > discipline, art can be seen as a form of
> > > investigation into the physical and natural world. In this sense, both
> > > art and science share an interest in
> > > knowledge and phenomena, yet are subject to different logics,
> > > principles of reasoning, and conclusions. In the
> > > Holocene suggests that art is itself an account of the world, and can
> > > expand the potential of
> > > investigative and experimental activity.
> > > Emblematic of the central premise of the exhibition, Germaine Kruip's
> > > film Aesthetics as a Way of Survival
> > > (2009) documents the phenomenon in which the male bowerbird arranges
> > > colored objects as part of its
> > > courtship display, suggesting an aesthetic faculty at work even within
> > > evolutionary behavior. Friedrich Fröbel
> > > devised a pedagogical system centered on childhood learning through
> > > color and form. Helen Mirra's sculptures
> > > address geological time and extremophile forms of living matter.
> > > Robert Smithson's interest in crystallography and
> > > entropy are reflected in both his Four-Sided Vortex (1965) and
> > > Partially Buried Woodshed (1970). Daria
> > > Martin's Sensorium Tests (2012) revolves around a recently recognized
> > > neurological condition called "mirror—
> > > touch synaesthesia." For FT Marinetti, abstract mathematical objects
> > > could stimulate in his readers the
> > > subjective experience of the sounds, smells, and motions of modern
> > > life; Iannis Xenakis' Diamorphoses (1957)
> > > and Mycenae Alpha (1978) utilize mathematical operations as
> > > compositional strategies for creating music.
> > > Alfred Jarry's "pataphysics," John Latham's "Time—Base Theory," and
> > > João Maria Gusmão and Pedro Paiva's
> > > "Abyssology" are all examples of speculative systems of knowledge
> > > constructed by the artists to address gaps
> > > in historical, philosophical, and scientific discourse.
>
> > > I resist chocolate-box aesthetics (however posh) and appreciation done
> > > to establish superiority of sophistication and am wary of concepts of
> > > elegance and beauty applied to science (most scientists I've known
> > > thick of this as 'waiting for a blow-job from God' - the world always
> > > proves untidy).  In a way, I hope art might light up (say) the
> > > financial system in a way extended argument cannot.  I've just
> > > finished a novel trying to do this, but can't get it to work - but how
> > > could it when most of our shared concepts from literature are the
> > > blocks to understanding?
>
> > > On 23 Oct, 04:34, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > What a pleasure to read these recents posts.//I've noticed the
> > > > politicians aren't saying much to retirees unless they think we are
> > > > over the hill and expendable- except we tend to VOTE.// I only have
> > > > one pair of reader glasses that are rx. I can get by with cheapies for
> > > > cooking and shopping but the eye doctor told me this was not a very
> > > > bright plan. One eye will not get the right whatever.// I have been
> > > > rearranging closets and dressers of late and can't remember where I
> > > > have switched things so it has been a riot trying to dress.//I did
> > > > come across a line of Matthew Arnold's that a little math goes a long
> > > > way for most of humanity and remembered my amazement walking into the
> > > > wrong classroom and seeing four or five blackboards covered with some
> > > > algebraic "work of art"- for it is an art.// I don't really need a lot
> > > > of money but it just costs a lot to live in western economies built on
> > > > self-sufficiency rather than tribal respect for the wise elders. :-)
>
> > > > On Oct 22, 12:22 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I have real problems remembering where I left my glasses (though not
> > > > > the ones with beer in) - even the IMF are considering the old Chicago
> > > > > Plan  (1936) for fairer money.  We live as paupers in the land of
> > > > > plenty in my view.http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/
> > > > > wp12202.pdf
>
> > > > > It's long and boring, but the gist is in the short conclusion.  It
> > > > > lacks your insight into what we are worshipping Al.
>
> > > > > On 22 Oct, 07:27, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > People are expected to change and grow. the errors of the  past are
> > > > > > meant to be out grown and evolved into a life that is kinder and
> > > > > > gentler with others coming to the forefront leaving the self centered
> > > > > > being behind,,  As I look around I am left wondering if this is what
> > > > > > is occurring,,  I see wealth being more and more concentrated in the
> > > > > > greedy few..  I see the traditional higher power being replaced by a
> > > > > > god of gold and wealth, that is worshiped with immense intensity..
> > > > > > an intensity that if applied to eliminating poverty ,, poverty would
> > > > > > be eliminated world wide within a few short years.
>
> > > > > > I have not forgotten anything to my knowledge Neil  I can remember my
> > > > > > childhood to date in great detail  recall is not the problem and fear
> > > > > > well that is more to keep me from getting killed..  I tend to like
> > > > > > invisibility  good idea
> > > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:36 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > With memories as bad as mine and yours Allan we have to invent for
> > > > > > > fear of remembering we have forgotten everything.
>
> > > > > > > On 21 Oct, 19:00, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> What happens when your whole concepts begin changing..   strange
> > > > > > >> things like the entire universe becomes small  and you have to go out
> > > > > > >> side its bounds..  Being a soul being what happens if the creation
> > > > > > >> soul is earlier than than the creation of the universe?
> > > > > > >> Allan
>
> > > > > > >> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:09 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > Science doesn't fascinate me in the way some literature and people can
> > > > > > >> > generally - I suspect the 'enthusiasm' of the popularisation of the
> > > > > > >> > subjects.  I concur on the predicament element rigs - insightive.  It
> > > > > > >> > seems a mistake to me to try and place god in some scientific-
> > > > > > >> > dimensional space (though I miss Pat) and I wonder instead whether the
> > > > > > >> > god-positions people hack out are as baseless as, say, phlogiston - we
> > > > > > >> > need some new thinking.
>
> > > > > > >> > Science and critical history have demonstrated much religious text is
> > > > > > >> > fable.  We repeatedly see that image management hides much that is
> > > > > > >> > foul under 'preaching' - here our current examples would be Jimmy
> > > > > > >> > Saville, Baby P, priestly paedophiles and Hillsborough (scouting in
> > > > > > >> > the US etc.) - but I'd say we may be on the brink of realising
> > > > > > >> > economics is equally vile.
>
> > > > > > >> > I can imagine spending a few weeks with a group living human-
> > > > > > >> > constrained lives in a collective of the future.  A woman kisses me
> > > > > > >> > goodbye.  She will not see me again because I'm off to a near-space
> > > > > > >> > terminal built off Alpha Proxima.  From there I'm relativity
> > > > > > >> > travelling to the edge of this universe to undertake genetic
> > > > > > >> > transformation beyond the gene-splicing that has allowed me to travel
> > > > > > >> > in space.  I see in 16 colours thanks to a shrimp and can enter
> > > > > > >> > cryostasis thanks to genes from Arctic fish.  I interface with
> > > > > > >> > machines and their learning directly.  I can no longer replicate as a
> > > > > > >> > human - etc.  Now I'm off to meet and form a collective with beings
> > > > > > >> > who perceive much of the world we can only postulate.  In traditional
> > > > > > >> > science fiction these 'dark beings' would be bastards intent on taking
> > > > > > >> > over the human world.  What I don't see is any focus on a future in
> > > > > > >> > which the rather soppy human-emotional ties are broken - a future in
> > > > > > >> > which ...
>
> > > > > > >> > One might ask how the creature I have become would get his jollies.
> > > > > > >> > One can go the other way in history and ask what religion has actually
> > > > > > >> > done.  We are not inventive enough about god.
>
> > > > > > >> > On 21 Oct, 14:50, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> And some feel science is boring unless it can be translated into
> > > > > > >> >> everyday life in meaningful ways.
>
> > > > > > >> >> On Oct 20, 3:50 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> >> > We travel at 60k plus miles an hour in the solar system and 500K
> > > > > > >> >> > through the galaxy in our system.  I tend to believe we can measure
> > > > > > >> >> > this kind of thing and that we are always left with questions like
>
> ...
>
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