On Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:48:13 AM UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
I was thinking today that all classes speculate- from horse traders---
bingo-lottery-casino- really, an endless list. Wall Street is just
another version of speculation. It's really a shame that Obama has
derided success/wealth- I find him to be a very divisive type and an
unfortunate leader then remind myself of humanity riding out cruel or
weak emperors, tyrants and kings. Then I "whistle a happy tune"! :-)
On Nov 14, 9:54 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It would be interesting to know who the rich are. Orwell said
> somewhere that propaganda reduced a word to one meaning. We tend to
> stereotype. I think this would be about what they do and don't do
> rather than naming names. I'd take the following guesses:
>
> 1. They mostly don't fight in wars.
> 2. They get a lot of education in networks not generally available -
> both in private schools and elite management of better state
> provision. This tend to make education a means to foster lack of
> social mobility and part of the continuation of privilege.
> 3. A lot of them are to be found in finance and professions that are
> the most heavily "unionised" places of restrictive practice.
> 4. You won't find them doing hard work (only for fools and horses).
> 5. They are the politburo controlling what we call politics.
> 6. Criminal money and tax dodging play a big role.
> 7. They are linked to ancient landlord rents in modern form.
> 8. They don't take risks, but leave the rest of us holding the baby.
>
> On 14 Nov, 13:25, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Funny. The modern concious self has gotten very talented at avoiding a
> > conscience let alone going through a thorough examination, Roman
> > Catholic style, but it's been a bonanza for shrinks and do-it-yourself
> > writers and advisors to fill the vacuum. And the super rich, as Gabby
> > points out, generally try to crack the upper crust- as a source of
> > future monetary opportunities, as a justification, as a display, as a
> > safety factor. Few realize money has become a product in and of
> > itself- like a bonanza crop for a farmer and even fewer complain when
> > then are making money (Madoff''s "investors", etc.)
>
> > On Nov 14, 2:28 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > That is true,, I think i misspelled as usual conscious,, you know the
> > > thing that nags you when you are doing something wrong..
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:11 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > It depends on what you understand by 'social conscious'. The super
> > > > rich by necessity have to be 'social conscious' in order to be able to
> > > > develop further. You don't need to have 'social conscious' if there is
> > > > nothing that you can do to participate in the given richness.
>
> > > > 2012/11/14 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>:
> > > >> It is the super rich that filled their pockets from the world's debt. From
> > > >> the looks of things there is a form or lack of social conscious
> > > >> that is lacking.
>
> > > >> Allan
> > > >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>
> > > >> On Nov 13, 2012 8:50 PM, "archytas" <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> There is hardly anything more important to thriving functioning
> > > >>> capitalism than productivity, and sharing the fruits of productivity.
> > > >>> It is notable that productivity among U.S. workers actually
> > > >>> skyrocketed over the last decade and a half, but real wages have
> > > >>> flattened or declined.
> > > >>> Where did the surpluses go? To parasitic financializers who have seen
> > > >>> their share over all corporate profits grow from 10% to over 45% in
> > > >>> recent decades.
> > > >>> After costing trillions and wiping out the world economy, what asset,
> > > >>> good, or service do big banks produce that has genuine public worth?
>
> > > >>> • "Expert advice", in which brokers intentionally sell junk to
> > > >>> consumers, as shown in investment bank emails?
> > > >>> • "Financial services", which turn out to be so laden with hidden fees
> > > >>> and loosened/fabricated credit qualifications that the lendee is worse
> > > >>> off?
> > > >>> • Allegiances that concentrate financial wealth the top 0.1% of the
> > > >>> population, causing the vast majority of the world to get poorer?
>
> > > >>> If anything, citizens would stand to gain more by paying big banks to
> > > >>> close their doors.
>
> > > >>> Big banks have largely stopped lending to businesses or individuals
> > > >>> because that's not profitable enough and because they need to retain
> > > >>> capital to reduce their exposure due to their own foolish
> > > >>> overleveraging. This depresses community and small business
> > > >>> entrepreneurship and productivity.
>
> > > >>> Bottom line: Big banks' "services" take far more in costs than they
> > > >>> provide in benefits. Much would be gained, and little lost, if they
> > > >>> were allowed to fail or were decommissioned outright for their
> > > >>> criminal behavior.
>
> > > >>> The bail outs could have been given to individuals and families
> > > >>> instead of the banks - we would probably have been looking at $120,000
> > > >>> a family.
>
> > > >>> It's not the roar of the crowd rigsy - we might call that socially
> > > >>> approved epistemic authority. It's about forming decent culture and
> > > >>> that we are less individual than we are made to think. Ask people if
> > > >>> they have a figure on what the TARP and the rest have cost each one of
> > > >>> us - you'll generally come up dry. If people struggle even with
> > > >>> basics like this what chance complex schemes of internal training?
>
> > > >>> On 13 Nov, 19:28, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > The US has lots of problems it does not want to admit to.. There is one
> > > >>> > extremely dangerous quake off the northwest coast .. that will happen
> > > >>> > more sooner than later.
> > > >>> > Allan
>
> > > >>> > Matrix ** th3 beginning light
> > > >>> > On Nov 13, 2012 1:59 PM, "rigsy03" <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> > > You seem to see morality as a group thing rather than an individual
> > > >>> > > struggle between good and evil- which is a religious/spiritual matter.
> > > >>> > > As for individualism, it is a necessary tension against "the roar of
> > > >>> > > the crowd". There are too many examples to list.
>
> > > >>> > > On Nov 12, 9:49 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > > > Even one person one vote isn't it on its own. Majorities are
> > > >>> > > > manipulable and often wrong. If you look at an issue like abortion
> > > >>> > > > -
> > > >>> > > > which I think should be available and also avoided by better sexual
> > > >>> > > > practice - there might be a majority against for all sorts of
> > > >>> > > > superstitious reasons. The US relies on Roe v Wade rather than
> > > >>> > > > statute. For all the romanticism of Irish republicanism, they leave
> > > >>> > > > a
> > > >>> > > > young, raped girl to 'her fate'. I believe there comes a time when
> > > >>> > > > we
> > > >>> > > > should have help to slip from the mortal coil but one can
> > > >>> > > > immediately
> > > >>> > > > see problems. Molly talks of embracing pardoxes - but much of the
> > > >>> > > > difficulty concerns cultural ideologies based in the manipulation of
> > > >>> > > > ignorance. Any half-wit should be able to grasp that the treatment
> > > >>> > > > of
> > > >>> > > > wages as a cost to be hammered down is inconsistent with a developed
> > > >>> > > > economy and genuinely available opportunity for most. Yet our
> > > >>> > > > politics treats the dominant ideology of a race to the bottom on
> > > >>> > > > wages
> > > >>> > > > as as taken as read as any Soviet claptrap. Worker unions are to be
> > > >>> > > > detested, yet managers, owners and professionals are more unionised
> > > >>> > > > than any set of mine workers in history.
>
> > > >>> > > > Science more or less accepts we are good and evil and that the unit
> > > >>> > > > that promotes good behaviour is the social. Virtue ethics arise in
> > > >>> > > > writing within an unchallenged slave economy - I don't want to be
> > > >>> > > > 'pure' and live off the backs of others (though inevitably as I grow
> > > >>> > > > creaky I do). I'm sick of phrases like 'flexible employment' that
> > > >>> > > > mean a return of 'you, you and not you' casual labour and managerial
> > > >>> > > > abuse in a unitary framework of the employment relationship.
> > > >>> > > > Disgusted would be a more accurate term - much morality comes with
> > > >>> > > > that feeling (scientifically).
>
> > > >>> > > > The story of what is happening in America and the imposition of
> > > >>> > > > 'individualist' ideology (a bad joke when one looks at the lack of
> > > >>> > > > it
> > > >>> > > > in American Football) has been long told. When are we individual
> > > >>> > > > and
> > > >>> > > > when are we selfish prats? You look very individual when you step
> > > >>> > > > the
> > > >>> > > > big forward, stiff the sweeper, dummy the fullback and dive over the
> > > >>> > > > line. Try doing that without the guy who gave the precision pass,
> > > >>> > > > the
> > > >>> > > > guys running interference and all the attrition that knackered the
> > > >>> > > > big
> > > >>> > > > forward giving you the edge.
>
> > > >>> > > > My grandson has just had a small knee operation free at point of
> > > >>> > > > delivery. The hospital had a room with Xbox (all donated). We get
> > > >>> > > > some stuff right. Must go to collect him.
>
> > > >>> > > > On 12 Nov, 09:20, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> > > > > I think it is it should be one person one vote,, and the
> > > >>> > > > > corporate
> > > >>> > > > > wallet closed completely and with a maximum amount that can be
> > > >>> > > > > donated (nation wide ) with no exception,,
>
> > > >>> > > > > effectively the excessively rich and companies and the companies..
> > > >>> > > > > The super pacs need to be forced to revel all donors and the
> > > >>> > > > > amount
> > > >>> > > > > they donated.. and that is a minimum these organizations should
> > > >>> > > > > be
> > > >>> > > > > totally removed. the Pacs as a republican invention and they need
> > > >>> > > > > to
> > > >>> > > > > be brought into control.
>
> > > >>> > > > > the US has created a political money quagmire..
> > > >>> > > > > Allan
>
> > > >>> > > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:48
>
> ...
>
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