Re: Mind's Eye What is really going on in America?

It's back to humane values and sensible choices, perhaps. We don't
have to buy into the cultural or commercial hoopla. I will think more
about this.

On Nov 11, 2:45 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are right rigsy - but we have to get somewhere beyond.  What is it
> in our arguments, sentiments and the rest that hold us back?  And may
> be very wrong?
>
> Allan is right we could vote better with our wallets.  We could, for
> instance, all bank with mutuals and have more local economies
> (Andrew).  Problems are as Andrew says when the wallet is empty and
> also that we already have 'one dollar one vote'.
>
> I doubt the academic-legal-commercial argument as argument at all.  We
> have a paedophile scandal in the UK - but even the media reporting it
> has forgotten it reported such a generation ago (the key documentaries
> were called 'Cathy Come Home'.and 'Johnny Go Home') and misses the
> point that they key point is what evidence we can believe when false
> accusations are so easy to make and make life very difficult for real
> victims.  Our public inquiry systems are proving increasingly
> untrustworthy.  When one teaches critical reasoning it quickly becomes
> clear most people are no good at it.  I'm quite sure our mainstream
> media has almost no clue and that many lawyers, judges and politicians
> would fail standard tests.  But surely the route here cannot be to
> elite groups of philosopher kings - but should be towards properly
> available facts - leaving us with problems about who controls that
> production.  'The rich', whoever they are, already do this.
>
> On 11 Nov, 11:33, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Matriarchies are what started the problems and from history they tend
> > to love war..
> > they are not a solution..
> > Allan
>
> > On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 10:49 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > I think that matriarchies are back in style- in all races and nations-
> > > and think it will be just as suffocating as the patriarchy.
>
> > > On Nov 11, 1:39 am, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Voting with your wallet could be an effective way to change things and put
> > >> the wealthy exploiters out of business. Buying cheap products is more
> > >> expensive in the long term  anyways. Buying food from local markets is also
> > >> healthier. As long as we all play the game, the game will keep playing
> > >> until every business becomes a monopoly and globalization will take over
> > >> our wallets. Once our wallets are gone, we are really screwed and will have
> > >> no other choice than to play robin hood. So much for free markets.
>
> > >> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, archytas wrote:
>
> > >> > We lack simple explanation that isn't  crass Allan.  I have little
> > >> > doubt the rich have stolen the wealth they have and it should be taken
> > >> > from them - but how do we do this without it ending up with big
> > >> > government that doesn't work any better?  I think we are tranced by a
> > >> > work ethic that really makes no sense.  We need facts on just how much
> > >> > work needs to be done and how we might organise that.  Simples!  Yet
> > >> > no answer because we don't understand the 'trancing'.
>
> > >> > On 10 Nov, 07:15, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > From what I see is the answer lies in manufacturing. And crazy things
> > >> > like
> > >> > > 50% less sales tax on products that are produced in the country origin,
> > >> > > that includes good thru all industrial products.
>
> > >> > > Better tax collection on all international corporations and stock or
> > >> > money
> > >> > > sent out of the country.
>
> > >> > > In the US all corporation papers say they agree to abide by all the laws
> > >> > > and if they don't they lose all corporate  rights and privileges. This
> > >> > > needs to be enforced and you will see major changes in business. You
> > >> > have
> > >> > > to remember tax evasion is against the law.
> > >> > > Allan
>
> > >> > > Air gunner full of hot air ready to release it quickly
> > >> > > On Nov 10, 2012 2:04 AM, "archytas" <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > The weird thing is that we are being told all sorts of stuff can't be
> > >> > > > 'afforded' - yet productivity is up by factors of ten since we did
> > >> > > > decent things like national health services - we should be able to
> > >> > > > afford loads more.  In the UK we were told the answer was US
> > >> > > > management, then Japanese - German stuff had too much industrial
> > >> > > > democracy for our business ethos.  Even the IMF has realised austerity
> > >> > > > is a crock.  We're in the grips of something else.  Debt is the
> > >> > > > obvious answer -but we have to address our attitudes towards it.  Its
> > >> > > > owned by robber barons and all link between work and reward has really
> > >> > > > gone.
>
> > >> > > > On 9 Nov, 21:59, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > I totally agree with you management is based on rot..but from what I
> > >> > > > > have been reading it is the same problem from eons ago,,  unchanged
> > >> > > > > what does it take to get management that is interested in the
> > >> > > > > betterment of society ..  the ideas sit with in beliefs  which puts
> > >> > > > > part of the burdens on religions ,, then the problems comes how does
> > >> > > > > one get beliefs to work for the betterment of mankind in this world.
> > >> > > > > Allan
>
> > >> > > > > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > Get your head back on Al - I know about the Japanese war crimes.
> > >> >  The
> > >> > > > > > book I was referring to was written by a Japanese clown.  The
> > >> > point is
> > >> > > > > > that management miracles are based on rot..
>
> > >> > > > > > On 9 Nov, 19:07, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > >> Neil I had two uncles in ww II One in the European theater the
> > >> > other
> > >> > > > > >> was in pacific theater and was captured even before the war
> > >> > started in
> > >> > > > > >> my memory is right   he survived 2 death ship and four death
> > >> > marches
> > >> > > > > >> that is talking five years of imprisonment into account  loss of
> > >> > close
> > >> > > > > >> to 70 kilos..  you need to get your facts straight as to
> > >> > strategies of
> > >> > > > > >> both wars..  and if Germany was acting like J ,,  Berlin would
> > >> > have
> > >> > > > > >> been Nuclear ashes also..
>
> > >> > > > > >> Yes  the US has serious fiscal problems..  thanks to some
> > >> > > > > >> irresponsible politicians  starting with the Reagan
> > >> > administration ..
> > >> > > > > >> hopefully  they will get something done . and stop sticking one
> > >> > thumb
> > >> > > > > >> in their mouth and the other in their ass then rotating.
>
> > >> > > > > >> As for what happens iihope for the best  but in reality   we will
> > >> > > > see..
> > >> > > > > >> Allan
>
> > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 6:23 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
>
> > >> > > >http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/us-debt-problems-threaten-t...
>
> > >> > > > > >> > The Germans are considering the USA as a potential Greece.
>
> > >> > > > > >> > I'm remembering attitudes towards Japan in the 1980s.  There
> > >> > was a
> > >> > > > > >> > dreadful book called 'The Japan That Can Say No' which
> > >> > summaries
> > >> > > > thus:
>
> > >> > > > > >> > + Japan must use its technological superiority as a negotiating
> > >> > > > > >> > weapon, and it should
> > >> > > > > >> > even threaten to trade secrets with the Soviet Union as a
> > >> > bargaining
> > >> > > > > >> > tool against the US and refuse to sell components that go into
> > >> > US
> > >> > > > > >> > missiles.
> > >> > > > > >> > + The quality of American goods is low because the level of the
> > >> > > > > >> > workers is low, while the superior education of Japanese
> > >> > workers is
> > >> > > > a
> > >> > > > > >> > big advantage.
> > >> > > > > >> > + The Japanese character is innately superior to the character
> > >> > of
> > >> > > > > >> > Americans.
> > >> > > > > >> > + Americans believe that the Caucasian race is superior since
> > >> > the
> > >> > > > > >> > modern era is dominated by the western world, and this
> > >> > prejudice
> > >> > > > will
> > >> > > > > >> > hurt them in the end.
> > >> > > > > >> > + Former American colonies are rife with problems, while former
> > >> > > > > >> > Japanese colonies are thriving.
>
> > >> > > > > >> > + America's dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan and not
> > >> > Germany in
> > >> > > > > >> > World War II arose from racism because Germans are white people
> > >> > and
> > >> > > > > >> > Japanese are not. (Though at the time of the German defeat in
> > >> > April
> > >> > > > > >> > 1945, the atomic bomb was as yet incomplete and untested until
> > >> > July
> > >> > > > > >> > 16, 1945, so that may have been a factor)
> > >> > > > > >> > + The trade surplus with the U.S. is caused by the lack of
> > >> > desirable
> > >> > > > > >> > products made in the U.S.
>
> > >> > > > > >> > I read it on a plane out there on a journey to discover their
> > >> > > > > >> > shipbuilding secrets.  I met a lovely bloke out there who told
> > >> > me
> > >> > > > the
> > >> > > > > >> > idea of copying Japanese management secrets filled him with
> > >> > dread.
> > >> > > > > >> > The only secret was they were rotten, sexist and callous.
> > >> >  Japan
> > >> > > > fell
> > >> > > > > >> > off its fiscal cliff when I left (1980s).  Almost sadly, this
> > >> > wasn't
> > >> > > > > >> > because of anything I left behind.  The 'brilliant' Japanese
> > >> > > > > >> > management techniques were taught by lazy lecturers for the
> > >> > next 20
> > >> > > > > >> > years.
>
> > >> > > > > >> > The coming fiscal cliff in the US isn't like Greece in that USD
> > >> > can
> > >> > > > be
> > >> > > > > >> > printed at will.  Der Spiegel says this:
>
> > >> > > > > >> > The US has more in common with heavily indebted southern
> > >> > European
> > >> > > > > >> > countries than it might like to admit. And if the country
> > >> > doesn't
> > >> > > > > >> > reach agreement on deficit
>
> ...
>
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