Re: Mind's Eye Constructor Theory Thinking

I have a little hope that our specializations will promote self
awareness in culture. Personal mindfulness is good but what I think we
need is more diverse language in the gene-culture layer for self
guidance, whereas personal aptitudes would be the platform and
technology providing enhancement through augmentation of those
aptitudes. Still mulling it over, but we are not ready to establish OSI
layers of abstraction, it still seems too... Asperger-like. I could just
be projecting though! :)


On 12/1/2012 8:30 AM, rigsy03 wrote:
> We are also dependent and trapped by machines and have lost many basic
> skills in the process. Machines are our answer to slave and serf
> labor.
>
> On Nov 30, 4:21 am, andrew vecsey<andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I like to add my thoughts and opinions to this very interesting discussion.
>> The question of if god the creator would provide limited knowledge....
>> could be looked on the following simplified way.... To a machine, designed
>> by man, man is god. Man makes his machines with the goal to make them
>> superior to himself so as to surpass his own abilities and limitations. The
>> software of a machine can be thought of as the soul of the machine. While
>> the purpose of machines is to work for man... to be his eyes and ears and
>> his hands and feet, with this line of thinking.. the purpose of man is to
>> live for god...to experience the physical world for him. When a machine is
>> terminated, its accumulated work lives on. When man dies, his accumulated
>> experience lives on.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:45:47 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>
>>> Neil if you were in the position of God.. Would you provide
>>> unlimited knowledge to humanity? You have to look at how knowledge
>>> has been handled till now. the rules are well known ..I think
>>> selfishness is a very dominate trait .. therein lies a problem..
>>> Are we discarded as a mistake,, no it may seem that way individuals
>>> are not judged by humanity but rather by their own actions and
>>> reactions.
>>
>>> I think the problem lies in trying to figure out the purpose of life
>>> is and ones relationship with the power greater than oneself and how
>>> you see the situation. Now how you respond to your life is your
>>> drama .. the effect of your drama creates your karma which ultimately
>>> determines your status in the great mandala..
>>
>>> What a person believes is actually of little importance.. How you
>>> live your life is.. In my opinion for what it is worth you are an
>>> extremely good soul trapped in a human body.
>>> Allan
>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:02 PM, archytas<nwt...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm not sure on souls Allan - what does seem clear is we aren't
>>>> trusted with much knowledge if there is a lot more to know - or could
>>>> not serve existing purpose and 'travel' with that knowledge, or we are
>>>> a discarded mistake.
>>
>>>> On 26 Nov, 08:47, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> You are very right there Neil.. the only possible solutions lies in
>>>>> religious beliefs.. that comes down to do souls exist and the
>>>>> origine of souls.. My opinion is well known yet I am still open to
>>>>> ideas.
>>>>> Allan
>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 11:45 PM, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> We don't see to have much clue when it comes to bigger pictures
>>> Allan.
>>
>>>>>> On 25 Nov, 09:31, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> maybe humans have this same basic hardwired instinct as the bees for
>>>>>>> looking out the hive of humanity only the age of reason and
>>>>>>> selfishness has over ridden it in most cases..
>>>>>>> interesting comparison:
>>>>>>> Allan
>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:15 PM, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> We have now uncovered a rich repertoire of behaviours under the
>>> hive
>>>>>>>> lid. Studies of the choreography of the waggle dance, for
>>> instance,
>>>>>>>> have revealed that a worker will interrupt another's jive with a
>>> butt
>>>>>>>> to the head if it has found danger - a spider, say - at the
>>> location
>>>>>>>> (Current Biology, vol 20, p 310). Bees also display an
>>> extraordinary
>>>>>>>> range of housekeeping chores, including spring cleaning, mutual
>>>>>>>> grooming and a form of surveillance in which "bouncers" guard
>>>>>>>> entrances against intruders. The hive has even evolved its own air
>>>>>>>> conditioning; when temperatures soar, the workers sprinkle water
>>> over
>>>>>>>> the honeycomb and beat their wings to produce a cooling draft. In
>>>>>>>> total we have now recorded around 60 separate behaviours for
>>> worker
>>>>>>>> honeybees, including six different kinds of dance (Current
>>> Biology,
>>>>>>>> vol 19, p R995). These achievements seem to overshadow the
>>> abilities
>>>>>>>> of many mammals. Rabbits are thought to show about 30 distinct
>>>>>>>> behaviours, and the beaver has about 50 in its busy life felling
>>>>>>>> trees, building damns and storing food. Even the bottlenose
>>> dolphin's
>>>>>>>> 120 or so routines are only about twice the number a worker
>>> honeybee
>>>>>>>> manages.
>>
>>>>>>>> Despite this bulging portfolio of behaviours, many zoologists have
>>>>>>>> remained sceptical about apian intelligence, believing they were
>>>>>>>> seeing hard-wired instinct rather than flexible thought. "The
>>> brain of
>>>>>>>> a bee is the size of a grass seed and is not made for thinking,"
>>> said
>>>>>>>> von Frisch in 1962. However, that view is now changing, as Chittka
>>> and
>>>>>>>> others discover a surprising mental agility behind the bee's
>>> bumbling
>>>>>>>> exterior. Chittka's first revelation came while he was
>>> investigating
>>>>>>>> the way honeybees navigate to a flower patch. Varying the number
>>> of
>>>>>>>> 3.5-metre-tall tents between a hive and a feeder - "It looked more
>>>>>>>> like an art installation than an experiment" - he found that
>>> foragers
>>>>>>>> seemed to count landmarks rather than using the overall distance
>>> when
>>>>>>>> working out where to land. Subsequent research has confirmed this
>>>>>>>> numeracy, showing that bees can match the quantity shown in simple
>>>>>>>> pictures of shapes to find a reward. In one trial they were shown
>>>>>>>> three leaves and then had to choose between two and three lemons,
>>> for
>>>>>>>> instance - a test they passed with ease. The ability to match
>>> signs
>>>>>>>> using different symbols is crucial, showing that the bees did not
>>> just
>>>>>>>> rely on a memory of a specific image but understood the underlying
>>>>>>>> number. But this ability is limited: bees can only count to four.
>>
>>>>>>>> There seems an endless supply of uninteresting people rigsy - I am
>>> not
>>>>>>>> sure mice are so discriminating! Old cops would appear a couple
>>> of
>>>>>>>> yeas into retirement looking much younger and ask when our (job)
>>>>>>>> sentences were coming to an end. My scientist colleagues nearly
>>> all
>>>>>>>> resent not being into enquiry. The experiments with mice involve
>>>>>>>> dicing brains - there are physical changes due to isolation in
>>> tissues
>>>>>>>> surrounding neurons.
>>
>>>>>>>> On 23 Nov, 13:38, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Wolfram Alpha - now there's an example of something not doing
>>> what it
>>>>>>>>> said on the tin at the launch! I shall go back.
>>
>>>>>>>>> They've found a wasp described as having a 'clock work brain'.
>>> Seen
>>>>>>>>> most of your finds James - which only shows our interests
>>> overlap.
>>>>>>>>> Your take on Deutsch hadn't occurred to me and set my mind
>>> spinning.
>>>>>>>>> I'm after a holy grail - something that would be a framework for
>>>>>>>>> rational discussion. Took a sleeping tablet last night because I
>>>>>>>>> couldn't switch off - a problem my laptop is having since W8! It
>>> now
>>>>>>>>> boots as rapidly as my first PC from a 5 inch floppy.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Will get t your links and then walk dog (tail wag as I write
>>> this!) to
>>>>>>>>> let news spin.
>>
>>>>>>>>> On 23 Nov, 04:48, James<ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's a neat reference to brain development in a tiny wasp
>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> undergoes major neural expansion when it leaves the nest,
>>> dendrites to
>>>>>>>>>> the tune of seven to eight mm long in a brain the size of two
>>> grains of
>>>>>>>>>> sand.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tiny But Adaptable Wasp Brains Show Ability To Alter Their
>>> Architecture
>>
>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091014144738.htm
>>
>>>>>>>>>> An offshoot for a member here, my father in law mentioned
>>> working in
>>>>>>>>>> audio biofeedback training \brain wave states with a woman 40
>>> years ago
>>>>>>>>>> with successful results using EEG equipment. The tech may be
>>> available
>>>>>>>>>> in nano-sensor array headsets today (a gaming rig/platform).
>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm out of steam tonight, reading about exocortex theories, the
>>> memex
>>>>>>>>>> and ended up at this fascinating timeline at wolfram alpha!
>>
>>> http://www.wolframalpha.com/docs/timeline/computable-knowledge-histor...
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Be well, happy turkey day, thanks gabby! :)
>>
>>>>>>>>>> ps. These are pretty neat too, apparently I became fascinated
>>> by wasp
>>>>>>>>>> neurology a couple months ago.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alien Wasps Abduct, Drop Ants to Get Food:
>>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/04/110406-aliens-wasps-a...
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wasps Can Recognize Faces - Social species relies on
>>> recognition to keep
>>>>>>>>>> the peace, study suggests.
>>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/11/111202-wasps-people-f...
>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2012 3:49 PM, archytas wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would certainly sign up for the brain-machine interface and
>>> a bit
>>>>>>>>>>> of splicing with a prawn to see in 16 colours (preferably
>>> with an
>>>>>>>>>>> alien who sees the dark). One possibility is that we don't
>>> know how
>>>>>>>>>>> to use our brains much - capacity is massive potentially. I
>>> rather
>>>>>>>>>>> like the idea that biological intelligence is short-lived and
>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> civilisations have passed through it. Stuff like Skydrive
>>> (which
>>>>>>>>>>> sadly are attempts to rent software to us at high prices)
>>
>> ...
>>
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