Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

My brother Mike loved guns, and in his 20s moonlighted as a Hollywood
bodyguard. when he passed away, I found his hand gun, the only one he
had left. Beautiful, mahogany handle, I am sure it was worth a great
deal, especially to him. He and I were opposites in a few respects,
not many. guns have never been my thing, and I hope to go my whole
life having not had one in my home. It caused a big stir in my family
when I turned his gun over to the local police dept. I called to ask
if they were interested, and the officer on the phone asked if the gun
was loaded. I said, 'you mean you want me to take it out of the
holster? I wouldn't know how." He said, "I'll be right over." He
was there in five minutes and his eyes boggled when I showed him the
gun. It hands were shaking, it was a beauty, complete with brand new
cleaning kit. I couldn't bear to sell any of his things, and couldn't
bear the thought of someone being hurt by the gun I had given away.

The topic of personal firearms, I have found, is like religion and
politics. The topic is often emotional and discussions heated. There
has not been a period in human history that I know of that has not
included war and violence. I would like to think we are evolving into
a more peaceful existence, but see as much to the contrary as I do to
support that wonderful hope.

There are ways to commune and live and think and feel that don't
include violence. the more we live and relate without it, the more we
trust overall and less we feel the need to defend ourselves. I can
see how much difference one individual can make watching Detroit move
from one Mayor with an ethnocentric view expressed with corrupt and
violent language and behavior, to one with a world-centric view
expressed with language and behavior that brings people together in a
spirit of cooperation (not easy in a city torn apart.)

I'm with Gabs on this one, and don't feel guns are necessary but for
trained folks in the service of their country or community as a chosen
vocation (not hobby). But that is an opinion. And, I suppose, the
freedom to bear arms if necessary, is as important as breathing.
Because at one time or another, we are called upon to take the warrior
aspect. I have been fortunate that in my time, words were only
necessary. Although I have made that 911 call for assistance in my
time, and was glad for the service.

My dad dropped bombs in the Pacific arena in WWII. I can't imagine
being called into that kind of horror.

On Dec 18, 5:17 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are totally in style with your attitude, Allan. Retro style is selling
> like hell these days. I had to buy a snapback cap as a Christmas present
> for my son, the latest rapper style, as the shop owner explained to me. He
> still remembers how cool it was to have the hole in the back closed. And
> Noah will get the latest assassins of creed game from my sister. The
> likelihood that he'll have to deal with Americans from the California, New
> York, Florida areas is higher than having to kill bears in the mountains.
>
> It's smelly in here, I need to go out and get some fresh air.
> Am 18.12.2012 09:10 schrieb "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think you have a whole lot confused I have enjoyed trout fishing
> > since I was a child.  and I love eating fresh fried trout..
>
> > I live in the Netherlands now and there is a great difference in
> > cultures in relationship to guns,  I said nothing about the Europeans
> > occupying america. there is nothing mythological about it and I am of
> > European decent,, America was originally settled by native americans
> > and the europeans that came and occupied and stole their land
> > murdering them freely in the process is far form a myth
>
> > Now back to fishing to those who do not fish,, well I guess it might
> > be romanticism I guess going to the gym or  swimming or jogging or
> > what ever sport you enjoy fits in the same category.. hunting in the
> > fall provided us with part of the meat we ate for dinner saving money.
> > and the same with fishing. They were a regular part of our diet.. as
> > it was and still is for many Montanans to this to this day..
> > especially true with poor families..
>
> > It is very true that parents teach their children to survive in the
> > area in which they live as it should be ..  if you live in big cities
> > children have a totally knowledge of survival than my children and
> > grand children have of survival in Butte Montana...  simple
> > information that if you are a lady in and around your monthly cycle
> > you don't go for a casual stroll in the woods where bears are known to
> > in habit..  you just run the possibility of running into a male bear
> > with romance on it's mind.  That doesn't mean it will happen every
> > time  but it is a proven reason for unprovoked bear attacks..
>
> > Gabby did you risk letting your children be hit by a car crossing the
> > street??   you have a greater chance of being hit by a car,, than be
> > attacked by a bear.. especially if they know how to be prepared to
> > deal with a bear properly.. It is the dumb tourist that go out and
> > feed the bears...  that ranks in the totally dumb category they are
> > not a totally cuddle toys you put on your bed  that can hurt or kill
> > you and need to be treated with respect. I don't bait bear so that I
> > can sell the information to tourist hunters,,  it is illegal  and i
> > would wee that you a vacation in the prison for doing that.. baiting
> > big game is illegal besides being immoral
>
> > Those are simple things you teach your children about survival..
> > unfortunately some of the best trout fishing is is in bear country and
> > I would not consider forcing my kids to stay in the house because they
> > might be hit by a car or go fishing..  you teach them not to feed
> > bears and how to camp correctly as to not attract bears..  how to
> > handle guns safely
>
> > Still like a good fried fresh trout dinner,,  I know I am a savage babarian
> > Allan
>
> > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 1:48 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I hear we talking now, Allan. You are telling me that I cannot understand
> > > the mythical importance of the Europeans occupying America narrative in
> > your
> > > culture that is not mine.
>
> > > Parents all over the world are teaching their children how to survive and
> > > how to reach their goals! And going trout fishing is THE American way of
> > > romanticizing but not talking about their own history. Parents generally
> > > don't risk their children being eaten by wild bears. They rather feed the
> > > bears and sell their inside knowledge of where to spot wild bears to
> > tourist
> > > bear hunters. Look at their average BMI and you know it's not their
> > hunting
> > > and eating too many trouts that formed these bodies. Also what makes you
> > > think your weather is the most difficult and your mountains the highest?
> > > Your God given grandezza? As for the wild and dangerous animals, they are
> > > coming from the east here in mainland Europe, because that's where the
> > iron
> > > curtain fell. So watch out, they might soon reach the Netherlands again.
>
> > > As for the mass massacres of children and young people by male
> > individuals,
> > > we too have had them here in Germany and in Norway quite recently, and we
> > > are practicing a different gun culture. The culture parallels seem to
> > meet
> > > elsewhere. In a different realm if you wish.
>
> > > 2012/12/17 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
> > >> oh there is a large difference between europe and the western hunting
> > >> culture I was brought up in.. You teach your children to hunt  and
> > >> survival skills..  camping was out in mountains and weather can be a
> > >> bit trouble some you have to learn survival skills.. you never know
> > >> what the mountains are going to be throwing at you and it can as
> > >> simple as a storm in the middle July..
>
> > >> When I was young major highway US 10 was two lanes ,, and the two lane
> > >> roads in the German countryside are better than the major highway..
> > >> both my know how to handle guns very well and with proper gun safety.
> > >> that is not important to you but if you are out trout fishing in the
> > >> the back country it is very smart to have a high power rifle with you
> > >> there are wild animals can hurt you  and you have a need be able to
> > >> take care of yourself and your family..
>
> > >> Here my pellet gun is enough to enjoy target shooting..  here you have
> > >> no need for a 357 maxi..  added from watching people try and shoot a
> > >> target.. Gabby they do not even know basic gun safety..  but that is
> > >> okay there really are not any guns here in the Netherlands at least..
>
> > >> If you are a tourist there you do not have the need to have survival
> > >> knowledge.. or gun safety.. we come from two different realms..
> > >> Allan
>
> > >> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:13 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > Whooo, Allan, what you describe as your idea of being able to meet
> > your
> > >> > families need is the classic example of why on the other side the wife
> > >> > teaches the children to better put up with Daddy's hobbies.
>
> > >> > 2012/12/17 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
> > >> >> I do not think it is a sport .. and the description of a cult fits
> > >> >> quite well.. My wife and I watch the program all the time some of
> > them
> > >> >> are really quite interesting and food for though.. I am not a prepper
> > >> >> yet at the same times over the last 50 years I have always tried to
> > >> >> plan for hard times...
>
> > >> >> I have always looked at survival as being important,,  looking at
> > life
> > >> >> as what is needed rather what is the most comfortable I have owned
> > >> >> several rifles, not counting museum pieces all though most are
> > >> >> functional they belong in a museum they are part of our history.  my
> > >> >> personal guns are for use. the rifle my dad you do not want on the
> > >> >> business end as its accuracy range exceeds either  km or mile take
> > >> >> your choice..  it was hand made for my uncle who  sold it to my dad
> > so
> > >> >> he could have a good hunting rifle.  My own pride and joy is a single
> > >> >> shot 357 max ..  I shot 300 grain lead  and either black powder or
> > >> >> regular gun powder depending on my mood.. I had several barrels for
> > it
> > >> >>  a .22,  30-06,  357 and a 410 and 12 gauge shot gun..  I liked the
> > >> >> 357 max the best a old friend of mine that was a gunsmith refit it
> > for
> > >> >> the max cartridge,,  now my little crosman 177 pellet pistol.   my
> > >> >> target rifles..  I liked it for its short range,,  I liked knowing
> > >> >> when the bullet would hit the ground 600 to 750 meters..
>
> > >> >> My single shot was a survival rifle.. and meant for just that,,  I
> > >> >> have never liked a lot  of flash..  ...   I guess I am not for
> > >> >> excess..and like the idea of being able to meetmy families need
> > >> >> growing my own food and the like... love barter..  do it all the
> > >> >> time..
> > >> >> Allan
>
> > >> >> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 2:16 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> > Yes. The comments about the mother are disturbing- far beyond the
> > >> >> > sport it was reported to be. But it is parents who begin to
> > cultivate
> > >> >> > children- you cannot expect a child to raise himself nor rely on
> > >> >> > society. Yet you must raise social beings and at least from my
> > point
> > >> >> > of view, one is never done being a parent for though you let them
> > go
> > >> >> > and stand back there is always that concern for them. But Obama was
> > >> >> > good to point out our duty to all children and also adults- in our
> > >> >> > behavior- or decency, as you have termed it, Molly. Another step-
> > >> >> > avoid the products that promote violence/indecency and some even
> > >> >> > contact the tv or other venues and protest as some did with rap
> > >> >> > lyrics, for instance. And I find as Allan has said that ordinary
> > >> >> > people are a joy to mingle with even though I have been very
> > critical
> > >> >> > of cliques and some of my experiences.
>
> > >> >> > On Dec 17, 5:56 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> yes, and cultivating our own decency is the first step for
> > everyone
> > >> >> >> toward solution.
>
> > >> >> >> On Dec 16, 9:07 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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