Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

Even the right to bear arms obscures the need for an honest and
democratic military and police. We can't fight them off with
handguns. We had a law here against standing armies and one reason we
had so many police forces was concern about creating one by
establishing a single police force. Whatever one thinks up will have
holes in it. Trust has to come into it somewhere

On Dec 22, 4:09 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am still trying to figure out just what the NRA's agenda really is..
>  All I have ever heard is you have the right to bear arms.. never the
> responsibility end of it.. I think greed has taken over..  They say
> they need armed police  that is easy to say, but where does the money
> come from they support the legislators that do not want to have the
> rich pay their fair share..
> Maybe the NRA needs to draft legislation that will prevent these
> murders from taking place in the first place..  I doubt seriously they
> would be able to do it..  mostly because that would mean taking
> responsibility in the first place. That they do not do.. all they are
> good at is bribing public officials.
> Allan
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> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I agree, Alan.  there are issues with types of guns, number of guns,
> > guns accessible to folks with documented mental instability.  Right to
> > bear arms is important.  Right to own arsenals is another story.  As
> > is right to carry into places that make others vulnerable because of
> > it.  The NRA isn't far off, I think, on its position that if schools,
> > hospitals, stadiums etc need armed police then they should have them,
> > instead of giving everyone who walks in the building the right to
> > carry.  However, the NRA, as usual, is using the tragedy to push their
> > agenda, and have the money to do it.  I have always found this
> > unconscionable. Will never forget one of their political campaign
> > flyers that had a picture of the US President in the sight of a gun.
> > Unacceptable.
>
> > On Dec 22, 3:54 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> if the adults were running toward the killer then they must be kretes
> >> because hero fight like kretes..   and that is what they truly are not
> >> some one putting their own life first and hiding away..  No one has
> >> any business with assault rifles including all military..all military
> >> world wide.
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 1:23 AM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > The truth is we can't protect against insanity. We can't do it against
> >> > crazed Muslims chasing 70 virgins in Paradise and we can't do it from
> >> > unsocialized mentally disturbed malcontents. We meaning society as a
> >> > whole of course. Without the guns perhaps this young man would have
> >> > chosen a bomb or a fire or sarin gas as an outlet for his rage. More
> >> > laws will have zero effect on this kind of tragedy. There was an
> >> > assault rifle ban in '94 that lasted 10 years and had no effect
> >> > whatsoever on gun violence.
>
> >> > Could this have been prevented? Well sure. Any number of things could
> >> > have been done differently to avoid what happened and those survivors
> >> > familiar with the situation that led up to the tragedy will likely
> >> > destroy themselves thinking "what if." Life is full of "what ifs." I
> >> > am thinking particularly of the father of the assassin here. No sane
> >> > parent could avoid feeling culpable here. The suffering around this
> >> > shooting is unimaginable to me.
>
> >> > My understanding is that most of the adults killed were running
> >> > TOWARDS the killer when they were shot down. They must have known they
> >> > would be killed but it may have allowed a child or two more to escape.
> >> > "Hero" doesn't seem to cut it. How differently would things have
> >> > turned out if one or more of these brave souls had a weapon on them?
> >> > What If.
>
> >> > Here's the thing. I think I could live just fine in a world without
> >> > weapons. I'm big and fairly strong and have the capability to befriend
> >> > or employ those bigger and stronger then me. I'll be just fine. What
> >> > about the children and the women? Guns are the great equalizer are
> >> > they not? Suddenly an 80lb 12 year old girl can stop a 200lb rapist.
> >> > I'm not saying all 12 year olds should be required to carry assault
> >> > rifles I'm just asking for some thought on who suffers most if guns
> >> > are outlawed. The weak, as always, suffer the most when choices are
> >> > removed from the table. The number of choices disappearning from my
> >> > society is alarming. From health care to banking and insurance and
> >> > investing. It's all getting more expensive and less user friendly.
> >> > TOO. MANY. LAWS.
>
> >> > But I digress.
>
> >> > dj
>
> >> > On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 11:27 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> The NRA is singing its old hymn I see.  The Aussies did have a big
> >> >> clamp-down that seems successful rigs.  If the price of armed guards,
> >> >> hospital treatment and such were factored into gun prices along with
> >> >> civil litigation for mis-selling and so on ... I don't go for the self-
> >> >> protection argument either - even cops have to admit the guy with the
> >> >> knife or iron bar will beat them if within 21 feet and their own gun
> >> >> is holstered.
>
> >> >> On 19 Dec, 05:19, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> Why not just sell suicide kits with a cyanide capsule? You know the
> >> >>> gun dealers have run out of clips in the last four days in case guns
> >> >>> are outlawed so some people will still be fearfully armed. How about
> >> >>> going back to duels or fistfights? It's all that testosterone.
>
> >> >>> On Dec 18, 12:00 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >>> > Most of the firearm killings are suicides - about twice as prevalent
> >> >>> > as homicides in US firearms incidents.  Ethnicity is a big factor in
> >> >>> > some states and not others.  I wonder how far we could get by leaving
> >> >>> > the guns out of the argument to start with.  We wouldn't be much
> >> >>> > bothered if these twerps just blew their own heads off.
>
> >> >>> > On Dec 18, 12:14 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >>> > > My brother Mike loved guns, and in his 20s moonlighted as a Hollywood
> >> >>> > > bodyguard.  when he passed away, I found his hand gun, the only one he
> >> >>> > > had left.  Beautiful, mahogany handle, I am sure it was worth a great
> >> >>> > > deal, especially to him.  He and I were opposites in a few respects,
> >> >>> > > not many.  guns have never been my thing, and I hope to go my whole
> >> >>> > > life having not had one in my home.  It caused a big stir in my family
> >> >>> > > when I turned his gun over to the local police dept.  I called to ask
> >> >>> > > if they were interested, and the officer on the phone asked if the gun
> >> >>> > > was loaded.  I said, 'you mean you want me to take it out of the
> >> >>> > > holster?  I wouldn't know how."  He said, "I'll be right over."  He
> >> >>> > > was there in five minutes and his eyes boggled when I showed him the
> >> >>> > > gun.  It hands were shaking, it was a beauty, complete with brand new
> >> >>> > > cleaning kit.  I couldn't bear to sell any of his things, and couldn't
> >> >>> > > bear the thought of someone being hurt by the gun I had given away.
>
> >> >>> > > The topic of personal firearms, I have found, is like religion and
> >> >>> > > politics.  The topic is often emotional and discussions heated.  There
> >> >>> > > has not been a period in human history that I know of that has not
> >> >>> > > included war and violence.  I would like to think we are evolving into
> >> >>> > > a more peaceful existence, but see as much to the contrary as I do to
> >> >>> > > support that wonderful hope.
>
> >> >>> > > There are ways to commune and live and think and feel that don't
> >> >>> > > include violence.  the more we live and relate without it, the more we
> >> >>> > > trust overall and less we feel the need to defend ourselves.  I can
> >> >>> > > see how much difference one individual can make watching Detroit move
> >> >>> > > from one Mayor with an ethnocentric view expressed with corrupt and
> >> >>> > > violent language and behavior, to one with a world-centric view
> >> >>> > > expressed with language and behavior that brings people together in a
> >> >>> > > spirit of cooperation (not easy in a city torn apart.)
>
> >> >>> > > I'm with Gabs on this one, and don't feel guns are necessary but for
> >> >>> > > trained folks in the service of their country or community as a chosen
> >> >>> > > vocation (not hobby).  But that is an opinion.  And, I suppose, the
> >> >>> > > freedom to bear arms if necessary, is as important as breathing.
> >> >>> > > Because at one time or another, we are called upon to take the warrior
> >> >>> > > aspect.  I have been fortunate that in my time, words were only
> >> >>> > > necessary.  Although I have made that 911 call for assistance in my
> >> >>> > > time, and was glad for the service.
>
> >> >>> > > My dad dropped bombs in the Pacific arena in WWII.  I can't imagine
> >> >>> > > being called into that kind of horror.
>
> >> >>> > > On Dec 18, 5:17 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >>> > > > You are totally in style with your attitude, Allan. Retro style is selling
> >> >>> > > > like hell these days. I had to buy a snapback cap as a Christmas present
> >> >>> > > > for my son, the latest rapper style, as the shop owner explained to me. He
> >> >>> > > > still remembers how cool it was to have the hole in the back closed. And
> >> >>> > > > Noah will get the latest assassins of creed game from my sister. The
> >> >>> > > > likelihood that he'll have to deal with Americans from the California, New
> >> >>> > > > York, Florida areas is higher than having to kill bears in the mountains.
>
> >> >>> > > > It's smelly in here, I need to go out and get some fresh air.
> >> >>> > > > Am 18.12.2012 09:10 schrieb "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>:
>
> >> >>> > > > > I think you have a whole lot confused I have enjoyed trout fishing
> >> >>> > > > > since I was a child.  and I love eating fresh fried trout..
>
> >> >>> > > > > I live in the Netherlands now and there is a great difference in
> >> >>> > > > > cultures in relationship to guns,  I said nothing about the Europeans
> >> >>> > > > > occupying
>
> ...
>
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