Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

oh there is a large difference between europe and the western hunting
culture I was brought up in.. You teach your children to hunt and
survival skills.. camping was out in mountains and weather can be a
bit trouble some you have to learn survival skills.. you never know
what the mountains are going to be throwing at you and it can as
simple as a storm in the middle July..

When I was young major highway US 10 was two lanes ,, and the two lane
roads in the German countryside are better than the major highway..
both my know how to handle guns very well and with proper gun safety.
that is not important to you but if you are out trout fishing in the
the back country it is very smart to have a high power rifle with you
there are wild animals can hurt you and you have a need be able to
take care of yourself and your family..

Here my pellet gun is enough to enjoy target shooting.. here you have
no need for a 357 maxi.. added from watching people try and shoot a
target.. Gabby they do not even know basic gun safety.. but that is
okay there really are not any guns here in the Netherlands at least..

If you are a tourist there you do not have the need to have survival
knowledge.. or gun safety.. we come from two different realms..
Allan



On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:13 PM, gabbydott <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whooo, Allan, what you describe as your idea of being able to meet your
> families need is the classic example of why on the other side the wife
> teaches the children to better put up with Daddy's hobbies.
>
>
> 2012/12/17 Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com>
>>
>> I do not think it is a sport .. and the description of a cult fits
>> quite well.. My wife and I watch the program all the time some of them
>> are really quite interesting and food for though.. I am not a prepper
>> yet at the same times over the last 50 years I have always tried to
>> plan for hard times...
>>
>> I have always looked at survival as being important,, looking at life
>> as what is needed rather what is the most comfortable I have owned
>> several rifles, not counting museum pieces all though most are
>> functional they belong in a museum they are part of our history. my
>> personal guns are for use. the rifle my dad you do not want on the
>> business end as its accuracy range exceeds either km or mile take
>> your choice.. it was hand made for my uncle who sold it to my dad so
>> he could have a good hunting rifle. My own pride and joy is a single
>> shot 357 max .. I shot 300 grain lead and either black powder or
>> regular gun powder depending on my mood.. I had several barrels for it
>> a .22, 30-06, 357 and a 410 and 12 gauge shot gun.. I liked the
>> 357 max the best a old friend of mine that was a gunsmith refit it for
>> the max cartridge,, now my little crosman 177 pellet pistol. my
>> target rifles.. I liked it for its short range,, I liked knowing
>> when the bullet would hit the ground 600 to 750 meters..
>>
>> My single shot was a survival rifle.. and meant for just that,, I
>> have never liked a lot of flash.. ... I guess I am not for
>> excess..and like the idea of being able to meetmy families need
>> growing my own food and the like... love barter.. do it all the
>> time..
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 2:16 PM, rigs <rigs117@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yes. The comments about the mother are disturbing- far beyond the
>> > sport it was reported to be. But it is parents who begin to cultivate
>> > children- you cannot expect a child to raise himself nor rely on
>> > society. Yet you must raise social beings and at least from my point
>> > of view, one is never done being a parent for though you let them go
>> > and stand back there is always that concern for them. But Obama was
>> > good to point out our duty to all children and also adults- in our
>> > behavior- or decency, as you have termed it, Molly. Another step-
>> > avoid the products that promote violence/indecency and some even
>> > contact the tv or other venues and protest as some did with rap
>> > lyrics, for instance. And I find as Allan has said that ordinary
>> > people are a joy to mingle with even though I have been very critical
>> > of cliques and some of my experiences.
>> >
>> > On Dec 17, 5:56 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> yes, and cultivating our own decency is the first step for everyone
>> >> toward solution.
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 16, 9:07 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > one decent person could make the difference
>> >>
>> >> > On 12/16/2012 5:36 PM, Molly wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > > This was a disturbed child who bounced in an out of school and his
>> >> > > mother home schooled him for awhile. Knowing this, his mother also
>> >> > > kept a collection of guns in the house, some that were used in this
>> >> > > killer's final, violent act. Who is culpable? The society who
>> >> > > allows
>> >> > > folks to collect semi automatic weapons in their home, homes that
>> >> > > also
>> >> > > have people with known mental illness living in them. The people
>> >> > > who
>> >> > > buy the guns and don't think about the danger of them falling into
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > wrong hands? The known whacko that finally snaps? A country that
>> >> > > goes around and around about these issues and does little to
>> >> > > prevent
>> >> > > the tragedies they produce?
>> >>
>> >> > > Hard to think it is spirit in action. but I know it is. and we
>> >> > > are.
>> >> > > and, as Neil points out, we are all culpable with our nonchalant
>> >> > > acceptance of violent expressions in our daily lives.
>> >>
>> >> > > On Dec 16, 3:55 pm, rigs<rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >> But violence and cynicism are quite obvious and popular in our
>> >> > >> western
>> >> > >> culture, in fact, celebrated; no wonder the undercurrent churns
>> >> > >> and
>> >> > >> explodes. This tragedy seems to have punched me out. Job was no
>> >> > >> help
>> >> > >> but classical music on the radio seems to help- the orchestra
>> >> > >> reminds
>> >> > >> me of the beauty humans can create together. The public grade
>> >> > >> school
>> >> > >> my children attended had a great music teacher back in the day who
>> >> > >> would put on an operetta that would bring tears to your eyes. We
>> >> > >> can't
>> >> > >> terrify the young and ruin their child memories of Christmas with
>> >> > >> this
>> >> > >> and we might pay more attention to the news around the world and
>> >> > >> realize troubles and violence around the world-yes, esp. in Syria
>> >> > >> right now.//I could never carry a weapon- just a tiny Swiss Army
>> >> > >> knife- that's it. But if I were to defend something, I guess I'd
>> >> > >> have
>> >> > >> to. Anyway- this man broke into the school by-passing security. He
>> >> > >> seems too evil to pray for- the way he killed his mother and then
>> >> > >> why
>> >> > >> would he continue his rampage at his former grade school? Such
>> >> > >> hatred!
>> >>
>> >> > >> On Dec 16, 1:14 pm, Molly<mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > >>> The undercurrent of violence leads to all of us becoming
>> >> > >>> suspect.
>> >>
>> >> > >>> Yes, indeed.
>> >>
>> >> > >>> On Dec 16, 12:22 pm, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > >>>> The debates/action seem to have gone nowhere Molly. One can
>> >> > >>>> even
>> >> > >>>> wonder whether collapsing lobby power and vast money in US
>> >> > >>>> politics
>> >> > >>>> would help by preventing the NRA targeting politicians wanting
>> >> > >>>> to make
>> >> > >>>> the anti-stand. The speed of our response to similar incidents
>> >> > >>>> in the
>> >> > >>>> UK has been very poor and I favour more weapons being carried by
>> >> > >>>> our
>> >> > >>>> police (though some idiot cop attacked a blind guy with a Taser
>> >> > >>>> recently, claiming his white stick was a Samurai sword). The
>> >> > >>>> undercurrent of violence leads to all of us becoming suspect.
>> >>
>> >> > >>>> On Dec 16, 3:10 pm, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>> the concept of more guns less death is totally erroneous, many
>> >> > >>>>> people
>> >> > >>>>> especially those that have to have many guns have a problem..
>> >> > >>>>> My job
>> >> > >>>>> required me to carry a pistol and it was concealed, Truth is I
>> >> > >>>>> hated
>> >> > >>>>> it.. and was written upon more than one occasion for not
>> >> > >>>>> carrying my
>> >> > >>>>> weapon.the truth is if you kill some one you can never give it
>> >> > >>>>> back..
>> >> > >>>>> if you cause injury it is permanent. anyone wanting to carry a
>> >> > >>>>> concealed weapon is really not all there I am sorry.
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>> I still love target practice and go through about 500 pellets a
>> >> > >>>>> month,, my pistol now is a little pump crosman .177 and it is
>> >> > >>>>> a blast
>> >> > >>>>> I have more fun sitting in my back yard plinking away and my
>> >> > >>>>> yard is
>> >> > >>>>> only 12 meters long.. my wife and I have a competition going..
>> >> > >>>>> we
>> >> > >>>>> don't miss and the groups are a tight as the pistol is capable
>> >> > >>>>> of.
>> >> > >>>>> the truth is It is far more fun than I have ever had with any
>> >> > >>>>> of the
>> >> > >>>>> guns I have owned .. and the cheapest.. to allow nuts to
>> >> > >>>>> carry
>> >> > >>>>> concealed weapons.. no wonder I like it over here..
>> >> > >>>>> Allan
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Molly<mollyb...@gmail.com>
>> >> > >>>>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>> I suspect that this is one of those Michigan issues that James
>> >> > >>>>>> was
>> >> > >>>>>> referring to as there is legislation before the governor now
>> >> > >>>>>> that
>> >> > >>>>>> would extend the right to carry laws currently on the books to
>> >> > >>>>>> include
>> >> > >>>>>> those facilities now excluded like arenas, convention centers,
>> >> > >>>>>> hospitals, schools etc.......
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>>> I completely agree that the problem is not with the guns, and
>> >> > >>>>>> that
>> >> > >>>>>> agendas are being driven at every opportunity. But I must
>> >> > >>>>>> say, as one
>> >> > >>>>>> working in a facility that may host 100,000/day, that anyone
>> >> > >>>>>> discharging a firearm at any time would create crowd control
>> >> > >>>>>> issues
>> >> > >>>>>> wherein a multitude of folks would die or suffer injury from
>> >> > >>>>>> causes
>> >> > >>>>>> other than gunshot. The equation that more guns=less death is
>> >> > >>>>>> indeed
>> >> > >>>>>> questionable. Whether or not we will ever be able to
>> >> > >>>>>> eliminate crazy
>> >> > >>>>>> is also. Answers don't come easy, and we often spin our
>> >> > >>>>>> wheels
>> >> > >>>>>> looking for them rather than making any real progress,
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>>> On Dec 16, 7:43 am, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>> It's impossible to think about tragedies like Newtown without
>> >> > >>>>>>> just
>> >> > >>>>>>> wishing they didn't happen and sorrow for the victims and
>> >> > >>>>>>> bereaved.
>> >> > >>>>>>> In western Europe we tend to see such events as American and
>> >> > >>>>>>> a result
>> >> > >>>>>>> of lunatic gun control. A fair representation of this
>> >> > >>>>>>> thinking can be
>> >> > >>>>>>> found in today's Observer - a liberal Sunday
>> >> > >>>>>>> broadsheet.http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/16/newtown-shooting-...
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>>>> The gist is one in ten thousand will die through firearm use
>> >> > >>>>>>> in the US
>> >> > >>>>>>> every year with more deaths than in Syria in its civil war.
>> >> > >>>>>>> Arguments
>> >> > >>>>>>> on this issue quickly degenerate with some saying the answer
>> >> > >>>>>>> is to arm
>> >> > >>>>>>> more decent people (so they can shoot the creeps and limit
>> >> > >>>>>>> damage) or
>> >> > >>>>>>> the right to bear arms to protect democracy from government.
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>>>> The real question is how we can stop scum, creeps, nutters
>> >> > >>>>>>> and people
>> >> > >>>>>>> pushed over the edge from using violence against others. We
>> >> > >>>>>>> are all
>> >> > >>>>>>> frankly wide open to this and the problem of what happens to
>> >> > >>>>>>> our
>> >> > >>>>>>> societies because of measures taken in prevention. I wonder
>> >> > >>>>>>> whether
>> >> > >>>>>>> answers to this may be well outside gun law and the NRA
>> >> > >>>>>>> opposition to
>> >> > >>>>>>> it - this 'debate' has, after all, gone nowhere forever -
>> >> > >>>>>>> much as we
>> >> > >>>>>>> have not prevented our governments pursuing imperialist wars
>> >> > >>>>>>> or race
>> >> > >>>>>>> to the bottom global economics.
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>>> --
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>> (
>> >> > >>>>> )
>> >> > >>>>> |_D Allan
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>> >>
>> >> > >>>>> Full of Hot Air& Ready To Expel It Quickly.- Hide quoted
>> >> > >>>>> text -
>> >>
>> >> > >>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>> >>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> (
>> )
>> |_D Allan
>>
>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>>
>> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>>
>> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>



--
(
)
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.


I am a Natural Airgunner -

Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

--