Re: Mind's Eye Re: A Call To Democratic Arms?

I think most will be surprised if/when they face resurrection- esp.
those who went on pilgrimages, bought indulgences, were active in
churches that promised an expressway to paradise. Actually, the
founding fathers worked for the good of the propertied or professional
classes they deemed educated and responsible. They were terrified of
the French Revolution and its aftermath. I think Jackson opened the
voting to more white males.//The highest taxes may be in Democratic
majority states to support their agenda/vote getting.

On Jan 23, 8:22 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> there was a time when american politicians worked for the good of the
> people. Today that is that has all changed..  the republican party is
> willing to hold the nation hostage so they can support the high priest
> of the golden calf..  making sure the poor pay the taxes and not the
> extremely wealthy..
>
> Oh well greed has it problems usually in less than 100 year when they
> face their resurrection,,  but the it is to late .,.,.  poor souls..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 2:09 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > He's also as stubborn as a mule Allan - makes him even better really.
>
> > Your pros and cons (plus margins) had me thinking rigs - I've been
> > asked for a book chapter on 'why economics isn't a science' and saw a
> > set of scales as I read your comments.  Coincidentally, Obama was
> > doing his inauguration speech on tv and I remembered you don't like
> > him - he changed to a lying toad in front of my eyes (literally in my
> > head - though I always know I'm seeing an illusion).  It was the
> > 'bringing democracy to all nations of the world' bit.  Stuff lies to
> > us in science - mass is the classic - we treat it as creating
> > gravitational force (yet gravity is an illusion in general relativity)
> > and also treat it in terms of inertia - experimental results
> > coincidentally 'prove' both.  US (and all other) imperialism should
> > make a statement like Obama's impossible to perceive other than as a
> > lie (the historical evidence is that we have subverted democracy
> > almost everywhere).  I know from my own experience as an experimenter
> > that it is very difficult to set up measurement. Thinking of this
> > woolly mix I went to bed and dreamed of politicians as cheating
> > alchemists.  The dream turned sour at that point when I sensed I was
> > on to something.
>
> > I can see a machine able to flag up (say) US foreign policy effects as
> > politicians make their promises - clanking up pros and cons to make
> > lying in performance management more obvious.  Science is aware that
> > it still gets caught up in myths (like creation and big bang - can we
> > think without origin) but essentially works hard on making factual
> > databases 'anyone' can use in terms of knowing what and knowing how.
> >  The economic-political system generally prevents this altogether.
> >  Don't really know what I'm on about - but I'm not scared by the
> > machine possibilities and suspect somewhere in this I don;t believe we
> > are human yet - and might only become so with machine help.
>
> > Time to unleash the hound!
> > On Jan 23, 6:56 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> sounds like a great dog Neil
>
> >> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:58 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Maxwell is a stubby-legged Labrador and a bit of a wimp.  He's a
> >> > sweetie.
>
> >> > On Jan 22, 1:40 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> My last was a lab-shepherd with high energy till he grew old- age 13.
> >> >> Also had a Chesapeake Bay retriever- another large dog that loves
> >> >> water. I have a large backyard but he really needed a field- stream-
> >> >> woods,etc. This cold is hard on paws- some fit their dogs with
> >> >> sweaters and booties.//Yes- it does seem the Brits collapse in snow
> >> >> and unusual weather but it's a strange year- even Jerusalem could make
> >> >> snowmen this year. Anyway- happy travels today.
>
> >> >> On Jan 22, 12:56 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > Max loves the snow - though we rarely drop much below freezing here
> >> >> > even with wind-chill.  I'm off into Manchester today, assuming out
> >> >> > trains run on a quarter of an inch of snow,
>
> >> >> > On Jan 22, 1:07 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > brrr.  We might be there overnight.  The deep freeze.  Wonderful
> >> >> > > world.  We move through it regardless.
>
> >> >> > > On Jan 21, 10:24 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > My earlier post has been diverted to outer space, it seems.
>
> >> >> > > > That loneliness may be a cover, you know.
>
> >> >> > > > Saul Bellow was a rascal.
>
> >> >> > > > The speed of information leads to surprise and a protean miss, often.
> >> >> > > > I look for patterns in history/culture and try to keep two columns-
> >> >> > > > pro and con with hope for the margins. The top tiers of government are
> >> >> > > > usually the culprits rather than their off-spring- and it's true of
> >> >> > > > tribes as well as complicated systems- the buck really does stop- even
> >> >> > > > in suitcases of cash and packets of Viagra.
>
> >> >> > > > My "dog" would need diapers- we're at -30 wind chill factor.
>
> >> >> > > > On Jan 21, 6:10 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > Of course, I don't expect anything tangled-up with government and
> >> >> > > > > academic bureaucracy to produce much practical.  The gist was once
> >> >> > > > > that we should aim for praxis, a form of rational action.  For some
> >> >> > > > > the guide was marxism, but most of us grew up with a form of Keynesian
> >> >> > > > > guide - the economics of full employment and FDR's never completed
> >> >> > > > > second Bill of Rights.  More recently we have reverted to the control
> >> >> > > > > fraud of banksters and neo-classical economics.  I was never much
> >> >> > > > > interested in the 'grand theory' - as a cop I was more interested in
> >> >> > > > > what people were hiding and lying about, as scientist the grand was
> >> >> > > > > excluded as rigorously as possible a the laboratory door and as a
> >> >> > > > > university teacher I was more interested in developing resourceful
> >> >> > > > > humans than daft, religious managerial theories.  As a kid, my elder
> >> >> > > > > brother and sister always claimed I changed the goalposts in argument
> >> >> > > > > and as I grew up I discovered this was what argument was generally
> >> >> > > > > about - the goalposts changing name to root metaphor and paradigm.
> >> >> > > > > Experts in argument are bought like lawyers and have about the same
> >> >> > > > > ethics.  When Socrates gestures at the Sophists claiming 'I know
> >> >> > > > > nothing, but even this is to know more than they' he is just being the
> >> >> > > > > smartest guy in the room.
> >> >> > > > > We say 'jaw-jaw' is better than 'war-war' - but there is no crucial
> >> >> > > > > experiment to decide in 'jaw-jaw'.  The problem with argument is that
> >> >> > > > > it needs arbitration if human beings are involved in it and the seeds
> >> >> > > > > of its own destruction are laid in most people having no training in
> >> >> > > > > how it is constructed.  If you get some training in this you can be
> >> >> > > > > bought like a lawyer as a mouthpiece.  Machine knowledge bases and
> >> >> > > > > reasoning capacity potentially offer a democratisation of argument
> >> >> > > > > expertise, manufacturing capability, medicine, finance and much more -
> >> >> > > > > evidence-based practice for all.  In practice, doing management
> >> >> > > > > information systems, one soon learns those currently in the know want
> >> >> > > > > to keep things that way.  I believe the professions are currently
> >> >> > > > > preventing this as surely as those smashing machines in the industrial
> >> >> > > > > revolution.  I believe this is the central issue of the moment - and
> >> >> > > > > my reasons concern the dream I have of the precipice of disgusting
> >> >> > > > > war,the dullness of politics, religion and literature.  Economic
> >> >> > > > > growth is nearly all uninteresting - FlopBook and so on - and rarely
> >> >> > > > > about the growth of capital I would value.  Would we could dream up
> >> >> > > > > something else - and why we cannot when 2% of labour can provide our
> >> >> > > > > food.  I miss any sense of collective dreaming and find only the
> >> >> > > > > loneliness more 'primitive' people I've met would comment on in the
> >> >> > > > > first blush of their experience amongst us.
>
> >> >> > > > > On Jan 21, 9:18 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > > Those who have contributed to the thread have shown me there isn't
> >> >> > > > > > much general awareness of the 'technology'.  There are already
> >> >> > > > > > intelligent systems like Watson (IBM) doing a fair job on embodied
> >> >> > > > > > expert knowledge (medical in this case).  The general idea is in this
> >> >> > > > > > from New Scientist:
>
> >> >> > > > > > In your wildest dreams, could you imagine a government that builds its
> >> >> > > > > > policies on carefully gathered scientific evidence? One that publishes
> >> >> > > > > > the rationale behind its decisions, complete with data, analysis and
> >> >> > > > > > supporting arguments? Well, dream no longer: that's where the UK is
> >> >> > > > > > heading.
>
> >> >> > > > > > It has been a long time coming, according to Chris Wormald, permanent
> >> >> > > > > > secretary at the Department for Education. The civil service is not
> >> >> > > > > > short of clever people, he points out, and there is no lack of desire
> >> >> > > > > > to use evidence properly. More than 20 years as a serving politician
> >> >> > > > > > has convinced him that they are as keen as anyone to create effective
> >> >> > > > > > policies. "I've never met a minister who didn't want to know what
> >> >> > > > > > worked," he says. What has changed now is that informed policy-making
> >> >> > > > > > is at last becoming a practical possibility.
>
> >> >> > > > > > That is largely thanks to the abundance of accessible data and the
> >> >> > > > > > ease with which new, relevant data can be created. This has supported
> >> >> > > > > > a desire to move away from hunch-based politics.
>
> >> >> > > > > > Last week, for instance, Rebecca Endean, chief scientific advisor and
> >> >> > > > > > director of analytical services at the Ministry of Justice, announced
> >> >> > > > > > that the UK government is planning to open up its
>
> ...
>
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