Re: Mind's Eye Re: the majority opinion

There's a problem with respect Andrew - if it isn't mutual someone is
being mugged. I doubt democracy is really based on respecting others
- though the world would be better if we could do more of it. I would
generally prefer to hear what people really think and feel than be
involved in politesse and etiquette or cosy small talk. I'm unusual
in this. I also value the erristic in argument but have no tolerance
of violence or threats of it (which are common in many situations).
Francis Bacon argued that most majority opinion was Idol rot and
Socrates called it doxa (false opinion). Most people I've met who say
they respect others soon start talking behind their backs. I can say
very plainly I don't respect false opinion and ignorance, but hope in
practice I respect people whatever opinion they hold up to a certain
point. I'm not generally very respectful of people into stuff like
creationism who assume I can't believe in the hologenome and god, or
racists, fascists ...
As a rule I dislike socially approved epistemic authority - but this
dislike doesn't lead me to the cult of libertarian individualism -
rather towards a philosophy of the person and a collective structuring
of freedom. I don't disrespect students who I give low marks to or
the mediocre majority. It isn't a simple matter and one usually finds
it hard to work out who starts the games of projection of disrespect.

On Jan 27, 5:54 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you asked someone in the herd, if they considered themselves to be
> part of the herd, or if their view was their opinion, I suspect that
> you would hear a view entirely different than the opinion you just
> voiced, Andrew.  An opinion filled with judgments presented as fact
> (or a an attempt of such,) twisted words and thinly veiled accusations
> are always weak argument.  Words like arrogant and vain are value
> judgments.  Herd mentality is a documented sociological phenomenon.
> Most operating under herd mentality do not understand that the basis
> of their thinking or opinion is fear.  I would speculate that most
> political rhetoric is aimed at forming herd mentality with fear.  At
> least, all the political ads in every city I have ever lived in the
> US.
>
> On Jan 27, 12:23 pm, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Heard mentality or herd mentality is not an opinion. It is just blindly
> > following the loudest voice heard either out of fear or out of  not having
> > an opinion but taking it from the herd you chose to follow in order to
> > conform.  The majority opinion in not necessarily the loudest opinion you
> > hear. The loudest opinion usually comes from an arrogant, vain and
> > disrespectful person who is power hungry and has enough money for a
> > brainwashing campaign. Like a dictator who disregards majority opinions as
> > mindless.
>
> > On Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:12:08 PM UTC+1, Molly wrote:
>
> > > Of course, I meant herd mentality.  Now, off to work!
>
> > > On Jan 27, 10:00 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > before the judgments fly any further, a differentiation between heard
> > > > mentality and majority thinking might be in order.  It is possible
> > > > there there is truth in what Andrew and Allan are saying, but gross
> > > > generalization, paradoxically, leads to a narrow view, one that is
> > > > unable to consider another. Heard mentality can indeed, be dangerous,
> > > > and a great manipulator can take advantage.  History bears this out on
> > > > many occasions.
>
> > > > On Jan 27, 4:35 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > what ever andrew
>
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 7:55 AM, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Except when the majority opinion happens to agree with your own
> > > opinion. In
> > > > > > my own personal opinion, anyone who thinks that the majority opinion
> > > is
> > > > > > mindless shows clear signs of arrogance, vanity and disrespect. All
> > > opinions
> > > > > > should be respected. Is that not the basis of democracy?
>
> > > > > > On Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:44:57 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> > > > > >> the majority opinion is the easiest one to manipulate as it has no
> > > > > >> idea what it is.  because of that it is the easiest to control
> > > being
> > > > > >> both mindless, disorientated with no where to go and no idea of
> > > what
> > > > > >> it believes as well as willing to believe  the comforting lie
> > > rather
> > > > > >> tan the simple truth.
>
> > > > > >> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 8:57 PM, andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >> > The majority opinion is the most FAIR, most JUST, most
> > > comprehensive....
> > > > > >> > opinion. You can not call it the best, the most correct, or the
> > > most
> > > > > >> > moral
> > > > > >> > etc...because those evaluations are personal. Majority opinion is
> > > not
> > > > > >> > personal.
>
> > > > > >> > On Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:15:25 PM UTC+1, archytas wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> .......I think we know
> > > > > >> >> what the right things to do are but are scared of our impotence
> > > -
> > > > > >> >> understanding more of why might help.
>
> > > > > >> >> On Jan 26, 10:14 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > In present tense it means acknowledging the massive amount of
> > > > > >> >> > illnesses,
> > > > > >> >> > deaths and general deformation of humanness because of a
> > > protestant
> > > > > >> >> > work
> > > > > >> >> > ethics that serves very much the one and less the many. I hope
> > > you
> > > > > >> >> > can
> > > > > >> >> > decipher my shorthand by now.
>
> > > > > >> >> > 2013/1/26 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > >> >> > > Yes and no one is more or less past tense the other is on
> > > going,
> > > > > >> >> > > one killing was based off racial superiority,, the other
> > >  killing
> > > > > >> >> > > is
> > > > > >> >> > > based off religious superiority,
> > > > > >> >> > > Whats the difference..    ??
>
> > > > > >> >> > > On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:25 AM, gabbydott <
> > > gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> >> > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > > > The other serving as a better example of wickedness is a
> > > classic,
> > > > > >> >> > > > Allan.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > > 2013/1/26 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > > >> >> > > >> A better example Riggs   and sadly enough  is Islam in
> > > today's
> > > > > >> >> > > >> world..
> > > > > >> >> > > >> This is evidenced in all the news reports of the day.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > >> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:43 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > The Nazis seem an obvious example of fairly recent
> > > history-
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > that's all
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > I meant- and history is littered with examples as
> > > explicated
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > by
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > Archytas. It's as if the majority gets caught up in a
> > > wave- to
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > use
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > Molly's image. Though there may be concrete reasons at
> > > the
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > base,
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > it is
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > often an irrational reaction. My point is that when
> > > dissent is
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > silenced, democracy is in trouble.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > >> > On Jan 25, 1:25 pm, Gabby <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> Ah, rigs. :( Where is Molly by the way?
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> Let's give the majority opinion problem a hearty
> > > positive
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> spin
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> and
> > > > > >> >> > > say:
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> the
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> majority of Germans is happy that the majority of
> > > Americans
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> is
> > > > > >> >> > > happily
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> forming their opinions in America and exchange it over
> > > there.
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> :)
>
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> On Friday, January 25, 2013 2:03:29 PM UTC+1, rigs
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > And very often their very existence does depend upon
> > > going
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > along
> > > > > >> >> > > with
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > the majority. However, one feature of democracy is
> > > that of
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > dissent
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > but
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > it can be risky esp. if the majority has a mob
> > > mentality.
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > When
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > you
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > think of the average classroom it is obvious that
> > > the
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > pattern
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > is to
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > echo rather than question and the same applies to
> > > other
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > areas
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > of
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > life.
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > It is just as likely that the group can be corrupt
> > > so
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > "membership"
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > can
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > be a doom- ex: Nazis, etc.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Jan 25, 1:43 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > If there is one concept on Earth that has been the
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > absolute
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > bane
> > > > > >> >> > > of
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > human existence (besides global elitism), it would
> > > have
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > to
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > be the
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > concept of the "majority opinion".  The moment men
> > > began
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > refusing
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > to
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > develop their own world views without first asking
> > > "What
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > does
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > everyone
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > else think?", they set themselves up for an
> > > endless
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > future
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > of
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > failures.  We are, of course, very social beings,
> > > and our
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > natures
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > drive us to seek those of like mind and spirit in
> > > what
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > some
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > might
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > call
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > a "tribal imperative".  However, this imperative
> > > to
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > organize
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > is
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > often
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > manipulated by those who understand the
> > > psychological
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > mechanisms
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > behind it.  Oligarchs and tyrants abuse and
> > > exploit the
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > inherent
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > social natures of the people in order to fool them
> > > into
> > > > > >> >> > > abandoning
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > their individuality for the sake of the group, or
> > > some
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > abstract
> > > > > >> >> > > and
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > dishonest ideal.  When successful, the
> > > organization of a
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > culture
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > becomes bitter and twisted, changing from a tribe
> > > or a
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > community
> > > > > >> >> > > of
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > sovereign individuals, into a nightmare collective
> > > of
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > soulless
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > sheep.
>
> > > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Human beings desperately want to
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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