Re: Mind's Eye Re: Newtown Killings

Yes- what are we missing? Let's not forget the mass killings in Norway
and in Scotland, either. Anyway, I feel less inflamed and more
sorrowful. Did centuries of wars and conquests warp our options? I do
think the celebration of violence is also a factor.// I felt safe
growing up and had great freedom and often solo.// The situation in
India is also in a "democracy"- what a joke.

On Jan 9, 7:32 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Russia, Mexico and Brazil all have much tougher gun control
> legislation than the USA and higher murder rates.  There are more guns
> in people's homes in Switzerland than Germany - but the murder rate is
> higher in Germany.  Statistical comparison in areas like this usually
> misses something important.  I feel safer in the parts of the US I
> visit than I do at home in the UK though I don't really know the real
> comparative dangers.  I felt safer carrying a gun as a cop but
> probably wasn't.
> I think the situation in the USA is an affront to all democrats
> including Americans.  My heart goes out to the bereaved and victims of
> Newtown, but they are a small dot in world figures of squalor and our
> non-democrat foreign policies.  All I can see in any of the debate is
> that we must be shying away from what really matters and typically are
> powerless to do anything.
>
> On Dec 31 2012, 5:40 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The problem with liberal justice is that the punishment does not fit
> > the crime. I'm in favor of capital punishment- in fact, you'd be
> > shocked at what I think those six rats in Delhi deserve- how about the
> > olde English drawn and quartered? Many criminals look on jail time as
> > free room and board and it is a very profitable enterprise. Happily
> > some of these murderers have the decency to kill themselves often
> > enough. What about the victims? And what about our youth that are
> > getting killed or maimed in the pest holes of the world???
>
> > On Dec 28, 10:24 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > There's something amiss with talking up gun control and yet
> > > subsidising manufacture.  But this is typical of the area of the
> > > debate.  The same people who sing from the free trade hymn sheet pay
> > > the subsidies.  Of course, putting a cop in every school (which is a
> > > minimum of two with rotation) is an expense on every business.  I
> > > don't know what the answers are.  Over the years I've found the same
> > > stilted factionalism from issues like this to foreign policy or aid to
> > > third world situations.  When argument doesn't work I favour looking
> > > at practical examples (Australia in this case).  Almost needless to
> > > say opinion is divided, though 85% of Aussies now support the new laws
> > > and they haven't had a mass killing spree since the reforms (1996).
> > > This suggests it could be worth a try, but frankly I don't have the
> > > facts.  Others say neither Australia or the UK are any safer as a
> > > result of our legislation.  Some even have it Newtown is a hoax
> > > conspiracy to disarm Americans to ease a police state into being.
>
> > > We lack informed analysis generally.  In some areas, like television
> > > economics and university opportunities for our kids, I know enough to
> > > know we are being lied to.  In others I'm just left wondering why
> > > expert opinion just seems lacking.  I haven't even seen a sensible
> > > presentation of global warming issues.  In place of facts we get
> > > factional twits rationalising everything to daft ideologies as though
> > > this is balanced reporting.
>
> > > On 28 Dec, 20:29, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I actually do understand Molly,,,  it is being caught between a rock
> > > > and a hard spot,,   due to the large amount of wackos out there with
> > > > excessive amounts of weapons  there is probably little choice left..
> > > > with all the fear mongering   that is showing up on television ..   I
> > > > am a us citizen living abroad.. and they are scaring the hell out of
> > > > me..
>
> > > > that is probably the greatest reason for taxation of each fire arm
> > > > annually it will allow some actual and realistic control and locate
> > > > some of the more sick gun maniacs
> > > > Allan
>
> > > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I much prefer the answer of the institution having armed security on
> > > > > staff  (we will all pay with increased costs at some point) then
> > > > > allowing private citizens to carry weapons into the facilities.  There
> > > > > are places that need to be zones that do not apply to right to carry
> > > > > laws, schools, hospitals, stadiums etc.  I imagine that the percentage
> > > > > of US schools having armed security will go up next year from the
> > > > > current 30% in response.  The problem of wacko access to guns is the
> > > > > sensitive area, where laws restricting folks with a history of mental
> > > > > illness might prevent those who need it from getting treatment (or
> > > > > treatment for children) because they are afraid of government
> > > > > scrutiny.
>
> > > > > On Dec 28, 12:10 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> I know defense contracting is very big manufacturing and entire
> > > > >> regions depend on it ..Then you come up against minor things that the
> > > > >> christian foundation is built on... there is one law dating back to
> > > > >> ancient times simply put Is "Thou shall not commit murder."   Just a
> > > > >> small problem spiritually ...  how can you justify the 200,000 people
> > > > >> murdered by american weapons and bombs dropped recently in Iraq.. were
> > > > >> american made..
>
> > > > >> The problem is not in the weapons it lies in balance ..  fortunately
> > > > >> each soul is responsible only for its own actions and decisions..   I
> > > > >> have trouble justifying any war or the intentional taking of another
> > > > >> life much less   thousands of them..
>
> > > > >> I see NRA wants to put one armed policeman in each school   is the NRA
> > > > >> paying for this solution...  and I can predict it will not work simply
> > > > >> because it has not worked in the passed ..  their next solution will
> > > > >> be prison camps   not seats of learning.
>
> > > > >> Sorry  somethings just piss me off..
> > > > >> Allan
>
> > > > >> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> > Currently in the US there is a much needed resurgence in manufacturing that
> > > > >> > all states are subsidizing to get their jobs numbers up.  this is no
> > > > >> > different than any other type of manufacturing subsidy, I suspect, although
> > > > >> > the use of the product is a sensitive issue.  Here in Michigan, defense
> > > > >> > manufacturing is one of the largest sectors, providing a good portion of the
> > > > >> > jobs in the southeastern area.  Many would argue that with the world economy
> > > > >> > teetering, conditions to manufacturing incentives would be problematic and
> > > > >> > stifle job growth.  State tax breaks for movie production companies has come
> > > > >> > under scrutiny lately, as they were extended to boost local economies when
> > > > >> > production houses were build and the movies were shot locally.
>
> > > > >> > Can't say that I disagree with the gun maker tax credit opinion above, but
> > > > >> > don't you think they would just move their manufacturing to say - China?
>
> > > > >> > It is a complicated issue, that's for sure.  I marvel at our ability to
> > > > >> > become distracted with ancillary issues.  Are manufacturing tax credits
> > > > >> > really the reason wackos wipe out children?
>
> > > > >> > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:
>
> > > > >> >> Gun production is state funded.  Smith & Wesson, one of the largest
> > > > >> >> gun makers in the country, is headquartered in Springfield, MA.
> > > > >> >> According to the company's 2012 annual investment report to the SEC
> > > > >> >> (10-k), Smith & Wesson received a large multi-million dollar tax
> > > > >> >> credit from the state that started in 2010 and will continue until
> > > > >> >> 2017. This tax credit, of $6.0 million, brought a maximum of 225 jobs
> > > > >> >> to the state, or roughly twenty seven thousand dollars of taxpayer
> > > > >> >> money per job, and was awarded by an obscure committee called "the
> > > > >> >> Massachusetts Economic Assistance Coordinating Council." That amount
> > > > >> >> works out to a little less than $1 per person in Massachusetts, money
> > > > >> >> that goes straight to Smith & Wesson's bottom line. Most Massachusetts
> > > > >> >> residents don't know their legislators and Governor have donated a
> > > > >> >> dollar in their name to Smith & Wesson through job creation tax
> > > > >> >> credits. Regardless of their views on gun control, I'm guessing
> > > > >> >> Massachusetts taxpayers probably don't favor subsidization of the
> > > > >> >> industry at such a rich rate.
>
> > > > >> >> At the same time as Smith & Wesson receives such bounty from the
> > > > >> >> state, the gunmaker has given over $1 million to the National Rifle
> > > > >> >> Association (NRA), the biggest lobbying group for guns. This means
> > > > >> >> that the state of Massachusetts, while considering further regulations
> > > > >> >> on gun purchases, is at the same time indirectly funding the gun
> > > > >> >> lobby. To actually reduce the number of guns on the streets, Linsky,
> > > > >> >> and many of our state and Federal officials, could start by ending the
> > > > >> >> subsidization of gun makers through tax credits and security funds.
> > > > >> >> New Hampshire lost the jobs 'created' in MA.
>
> > > > >> >> On 25 Dec, 22:31, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> > I haven't got a figure on the externalities of gun ownership - but car
> > > > >> >> > ownership was recently estimated to cost each individual in the UK
> > > > >> >> > £850 a year - £48 billion.  About £38 billion is generated in taxes.
> > > > >> >> > The underlying issue may well be that the way we let cost drive
> > > > >> >> > efficiency generally is probably wrong now and we need a better
> > > > >> >> > resource utilisation model.  A big question is whether we trust our
> > > > >> >> > police and other authorities to keep us safe.  Here, people who have
> > > > >> >> > not needed
>
> ...
>
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