Mind's Eye Re: Madness and Sanity

The ultimate model in this is Gresham's Law or at least it's modern
version - that allowing fraud just encourages more of it and drives
out honest business behaviour. The idea was expressed in Gulliver's
Travels. I can see what you mean about models Molly and broadly
agree. We still live with Machiavelli in terms of leadership. We can
see Dorner isn't Dirty Harry. I just wonder if we could form a system
that chased the kind of leaders we get into jail or the line of fire.
I fear it's too late. I do think the average jury would convict the
bankster types if we treated them as we will Dorner - we just aren't
allowed to use our sense of justice because of Delaware registration
laws and the rest. I'm giving up myself in order to have my last
years in uninteresting times.

On Feb 10, 9:11 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Each model tells us something.  More, maybe.  How much do the models
> tell us about how to relate to our daily experience?  In the event
> that we all look away from bad behavior and don't question whether or
> not it adds us to potential problems because doing so means we become
> accountable ourselves - what the models tell us have little value.  We
>elli all do it, not just groups or systems.  We are all accountable.
>
> On Feb 10, 12:18 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://wer.worldeconomicsassociation.org/article/view/37
>
> > I'm guessing the criminal model might tell us more Molly.  When even
> > something like microfinance goes as horribly wrong as the link
> > suggests I wonder what it is that makes us spot criminality and
> > madness.  Dorner reminds me (a bit) of the morality crash I saw in a
> > management buy out years ago.  In grand principle he has probably done
> > less than we manage with drone attack - but the grey-shading of 'dirty
> > hands' doesn't enter his case.  We can see he's a murderer and
> > probably paranoid-narcissist.  We seem to lack such clarity with much
> > else going on and I'm not sure it really is that difficult.
>
> > On Feb 10, 3:26 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Not sure criminal behavior is a gauge, as much as a symptom of a
> > > multitude of disorders.  I've met many narcissistic sociopaths who are
> > > adept at taking it right to the edge of illegal or what case can be
> > > won in court (or in the workplace, HR), and do a great deal of damage
> > > operating like that.  They continue, as you say, because of our
> > > tendency to look away from what is uncomfortable instead of having
> > > those difficult conversations to see problems through to a conclusion
> > > where everyone wins and no one loses.  Losers make sure other people
> > > lose.  They often don't see that they, themselves are losing.
>
> > > On Feb 10, 9:36 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://youranonnews.tumblr.com/post/42506354980/heres-an-uncensored-c...
>
> > > > Christopher Dorner the former LAPD officer gone rogue is clearly mad
> > > > if the link above is his work.  There's a persecution complex and he
> > > > wanders off into statements about public figures as though they'd give
> > > > a toss on his opinion.  The probably squalid murders he's committed
> > > > are somehow justified in a messy story of himself as public avenger.
>
> > > > My own view of the world is probably more extreme than Dorner's.  I
> > > > don't believe we get much right in our organisations and I'm sure we
> > > > suffer from collective madness and denial in most of our dealings with
> > > > each other.  I don't believe that the vast majority of our cops,
> > > > nurses and so on are hard working and generally do the right thing -
> > > > rather most people don't care much and spend an awful lot of time
> > > > 'looking the other way'.  The truth is that most of our complaints'
> > > > systems don't work and were designed not to.  The kind of evidence of
> > > > what I'm saying here is the Hillsborough Report - this demonstrates
> > > > that rather than standing up for truth, pretty much every cop lied and
> > > > the public was mislead for more than 20 years.  Nurses are leaving
> > > > patients who can't fend for themselves lying in their own mess and
> > > > even worse.  Abused children are left with abusers.  What really
> > > > convinces me we are getting almost everything wrong is an absence of
> > > > real statistical reasoning - what we get is performance management
> > > > (juking) and promises lessons are being learned that last until the
> > > > next serious incident comes to light - when the promise is used again.
>
> > > > I wonder what separates me from sad/bad jerks like Dorner?  I don't
> > > > kill people and wouldn't, much as I liked the film, dream of doing
> > > > Dirty Harry - the evidence is rarely clear enough.  The truth is
> > > > usually banal and even dull.  I can't work out how I know Dorner is a
> > > > clown and yet believe police complaints systems are hapless and cover
> > > > a multitude of sins.  I know most whistleblowers face dreadful
> > > > smearing, but this guy is out of it.  John Kiriakou seems sane and the
> > > > US finally mad in sending him to jail and making Brennan head of CIA.
>
> > > > How do we gauge madness and sanity?

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