Re: Mind's Eye Re: Good and bad

I have never actually heard anyone say Gorblimey - it was always
something in comic bubbles - the exclamation associated with a
sighting of large mammaries (I never did understand the connection).
I would be inclined to shoot anyone producing a green nine at cards.
Men look at faces, women at bodies.

On Feb 4, 3:45 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 'Ach du grüne Neune' (Gorblimey!), as we say in old fairy tale
> languagehere, "to get out of combat duty" is not really the context
> have been
> thinking of. But of course, the military dimension is not to be forgotten
> when introducing new knowledge categories. Thanks for pointing that out to
> me.
>
> 2013/2/4 archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Currently watching grandson at 15 getting interested in science.  He's
> > doing stuff I did at school when 12.  Looking at A level exams
> > questions a few months back I found I would probably pass in lots of
> > subjects except the maths and sciences I actually got!  On hearing the
> > official version of how WW1 started at 12 the boy refused to believe
> > this was true.  How could such atrocity take place just because a
> > couple of upper class old farts were shot up outside a butty bar?  I
> > told him about the 'war of Jenkin's ear' and was accused of making it
> > up.  He's innocent, even for his age - his mother grew out of it by 30
> > - and I find myself interested in how these historical fairy tales
> > taught to me as real are so easy for him to dismiss without baggage I
> > drag about on false flags, vile foreign policy, empire and bent
> > politics.
>
> > I sense you are very right and slightly wrong at the same time on this
> > Gabby.  The Greeks knew a lot but still kept slaves and had no science
> > a we accept the stuff now.  They did have great skills with wood,
> > stone and metals and engineering - much  of it very similar to that of
> > the shipyards I worked in.  We might actually carry less knowledge
> > about with us these days - grandson isn't taught any of the woodwork
> > or EWTP I got and can't build flat packs.  Skills have been replaced
> > by mass production methods and embodied knowledge. Even I don't do my
> > won car repairs and maintenance these days (hurts too much).
> > Meanwhile the golden knowledge mountain of knowing that is a burden on
> > our unskilled bodies, reminding us we can't know it all if we are
> > lucky or blaring what ignorant clowns we are if we aren't.  The
> > individual may know how  to less whilst living in a knowledge society
> > knowing a lot more that and with a lot of knowledge embodied in
> > machine.  Of course, every generation of old farts thinks the ones
> > coming after it are laggardly, idle, arrogant-ignorant and the rest.
> > It seems from grandson teachers that the school can't risk teaching
> > woodwork (who would seriously arm the little vandals with chisels or
> > even teach them to sharpen it to a point).  EWTP was unkown and when I
> > explained a little beyond engineering workshop theory and practice (an
> > A level of dummies when I did it) I realised the teachers were
> > appalled anyone had been irresponsible enough to let people like me
> > loose on a lathe at 14.  They don't teach woodwork or metalwork these
> > days, the only stuff I have used at home and work.  German and French
> > colleagues tell me the decline in school standards is not limited to
> > England.  Individual humans generally know less these days, but we
> > know more as a society?
>
> > I meet plenty of people who have been suckered by that combination of
> > literature, film, soap opera, detective fiction, bodice rippers and
> > school teachers who survived university training through York Notes
> > and copying.  If people knew more they would be occupying the schools
> > and universities demanding better - Catch 22 is perhaps they are all
> > waiting for classes in occupying!
>
> > On Feb 4, 10:05 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I believe the massive ignorance is based on the myth that we know a lot -
> > > that we we know so much more than generations before us, that there is a
> > > constant or exponential growth of knowledge in people. Cause of the
> > > self-interest of educational spin masters et al. I would like to see real
> > > access to good knowledge, based on real data. I myself plead guilty of
> > > massive ignorance, which does not allow for a dialogue in many cases. I
> > > need to start before.
>
> > > 2013/2/4 archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > Marx railed against the financial cavaliers.  David Ricardo condemned
> > > > landlords as parasites.  Adam Smith had a utopian notion of a debt-
> > > > free society.  Keynes saw the rentier as a temporary, transitional
> > > > character in capitalism, seeing a sea-change after the demise of this
> > > > functionless investor.  In terms of good and bad we don't seem to be
> > > > able to get past thinking calls for change are about unseating
> > > > capitalism and what we have previously soaked-up as good and bad
> > > > without much evaluation.  What we have now isn't working for many
> > > > people, the planet and so on.  I regard it as immoral to shrug this
> > > > off as to do with luck or glib asides that 'capitalism is imperfect
> > > > but beats all the other games in town' - but how can most people
> > > > actually engage with any dialogue given their massive ignorance?  We
> > > > can hardly start calling people immoral because they haven't learned
> > > > much about the world beyond the foot of their own stairs.  I still
> > > > meet the odd kook who still believes in Stalinism, but Ayn Rand
> > > > neoconservatism is as bad.
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 5:46 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I too think you don't understand rigs and are using language that is
> > > > > out of date.  I have no problems with capitalism per se - though we
> > > > > sti ll need to do something to prevent wealth being focused in few
> > > > > hands and perverting our politics. One sees examples I'm sure we'd
> > > > > both enjoy - farms producing their our butter and cheese from their
> > > > > own cows, bread from their own wheat - delicious stuff and typical of
> > > > > what we need more of.  A comparatively large cooperative bakery in
> > > > > which employees take shares based on hours put in.  I think we can
> > and
> > > > > should run capitalism at these levels - the mistake is blowing it up
> > > > > into something it cannot be and allowing wealth accumulation of
> > > > > obscene kinds that forces monopolies and economic rents on the rest
> > of
> > > > > us
> > > > > Both communist experiments and giant transnational capitalism force a
> > > > > situation of centralised capital in few hands and lead to corruption
> > -
> > > > > we need something else.  Our votes are being rendered as unimportant
> > > > > as any in the old Soviet Union.
>
> > > > > I worked as a company doctor and remain an advocate of lean
> > > > > production.  The problem with this is we don't look beyond the
> > > > > consequences for the individual firm.  The problem with finance is
> > > > > that it has taken over the money system instead of becoming a utility
> > > > > to a broader industrial, agricultural and social system.  Profit
> > isn't
> > > > > the problem but rather the distribution and redeployment of it in
> > > > > production and better lives.  In my view it is immoral not to examine
> > > > > the difficulties involved in creating a decent system.
>
> > > > > The entrepreneurs are not what you suggest - at any given time 40% of
> > > > > them are looking to open the next coffee shop fad and a further 40%
> > > > > abut to steal business from current employers.  The only innovations
> > > > > I've seen in financial services are the ATM and Internet banking -
> > the
> > > > > rest of the entrepreneurialism in that sector are thieving tricks
> > that
> > > > > corrupt what money is so it can be stolen - and also make productive
> > > > > investment much more difficult and working hard for a decent wage,
> > > > > saving, buying one's house and so on almost impossible.  The argument
> > > > > is less about turning socialist and more about reclaiming capitalism
> > > > > from those who have stolen and perverted it.
> > > > > On Feb 3, 9:10 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Maybe we can  that sounds better they wound't like it much
> >  though..
>
> > > > > > Really rigsy I am all for individuals doing their own thing and
> > making
> > > > > > a profit..   what I am against is the giant corporations that that
> > are
> > > > > > raping and pillaging  the world for the profit of the few at the
> > > > > > expense of the many  and believe me Rigsy  you are not the few..
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:34 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I think risk takers are entrepreneurs that start companies- solo
> > or
> > > > as
> > > > > > > a group- and it's their product/service that should be judged.
> > It's
> > > > > > > also the investors who support that company. Both need capital to
> > > > > > > invest- private funds or a loan. Both expect a reward- ususally
> > > > > > > financial. Sometimes workers are included in the reward system.
> > Who
> > > > > > > owns the farm, the company, the store? Who deserves the family
> > > > > > > inheritance? Etc. Why punish capitalism?
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 2, 9:11 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> No problems with that analysis rigs and thinking about it I do
> > > > gamble
> > > > > > >> like that with real friends (usually bridge).  I'd have to
> > quibble
> > > > on
> > > > > > >> the dictionary definition - this isn't quite what "rents" are in
> > > > > > >> economics.  I'd have to go on a lot to explain in full.  Rigs
> > hits
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> key element anyway - 'systems that the average person cannot
> > access
> > > > or
> > > > > > >> control'.  Oil has been a classic example of economic rent -
> > this
> > > > was
> > > > > > >> largely done by controlling distribution in order to extract a
> > much
> > > > > > >> higher price that production costs - this included preventing
> > new
> > > > > > >> sources of supply in the market until well after WW2.  Barings
> > Bank
> > > > > > >> was involved in a typical example of false monopoly trading over
> > > > > > >> cochineal in the 18th century (it was then a major
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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