Re: Mind's Eye Re: Question of Purpose

The day job does get in the way. Thanks for the thought Gabby -
though my intention might be to make people sick at the thought of
banksters (other than the ones swinging from lamp-posts)! Jonathon
Sugarman (a whistle-blower on the Irish banking collapse) said this
recently:
'
The laziness of the educated middle class is the thing haunting me.
Rich bankers see what is happening, and laugh all the way to the bank,
while the middle class works to serve their interests. Risk managers,
lawyers, chartered accountants, all these people pretend that they are
working hard, while in truth they are lazy – morally and
intellectually. The same holds true for the university professors of
law and of economics. Where is constructive criticism today? This
laziness has become so widespread, that very few can see it for what
it is.'

Working out where manipulation starts and finishes might be part of
the answer. My given name means 'the champion' in the Gaelic (which
we say 'garlic') - bad enough but at least it didn't impose heavy
drinking, wife-beating shipbuilding and animal husbandry on me Gabs!
Perhaps your manipulative intent was more along 'a boy named Sue'? Of
course, I'm inclined to stereotype religious people Gabs - which would
only give me cognitive dissonance with someone I admire like you. It
would be paranoid to start believing you manipulated to this end.
Criticism and nurture run in a similar scale - Noah will both survive
and benefit from you. I am not sure how we separate good manipulation
from bad but am sure we can.

Making one's 'own way'in the world has a lot to do with money Allan -
freedom at last from "parent tyranny" being one. How much misery 60%
youth unemployment rates must cause! Now we are dumping our kids into
debt peonage (for it is not just the kids who want to leave, but
parents who want to be rid of them) through qualification.

On Feb 18, 9:58 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ha-ha, Allan, that reminds me when Noah was still young and came up with
> the 'not bad' qualifier. I made him solve some simple arithmetic problem
> and then asked him, if he was able to come up with a positive qualifier
> now. Coming to think of it, this might be seen as rather manipulative.
>
> 2013/2/18 Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > That might not be a bad idea Neil
>
> > On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 7:19 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I have come to the conclusion that yes, it is time you got your novel
> > out.
> > > Out to a wider audience than us. It has been very selfish of us to keep
> > you
> > > occupied for our little ahs and buts. Due to your persistent training of
> > our
> > > immune system I can say that I don't automatically feel sick anymore when
> > > hearing of banksters, economists, police, military, and politicians.
> > Thank
> > > you Neil!
>
> > > 2013/2/16 archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>
> > >> I was OK with the university scene until 1995/6 - that's when fees
> > >> came in and we started recruiting masses of foreign students and
> > >> dropped real entry qualifications more or less to ability to mist the
> > >> mirror.  It would be OK if the qualifications and experience really
> > >> did something for most students, but for most it means debt problems
> > >> and most would benefit  lot more doing a degree at 25 +.  The key
> > >> stats are that the only students who really benefit financially are
> > >> already from well-off families and the lack of really skilled jobs in
> > >> the economy.  We could have moved to a model much more involved with
> > >> industry, but instead the way funding worked made it impossible to
> > >> keep up he work we already did in that area - really good work project
> > >> based qualifications were replaced by classroom taught programmes.  I
> > >> obtained several million in research/project funding but saw most of
> > >> it wasted.  At least in this new line of work no one gets stuck with
> > >> the debt bill.  I have to requalify as my assessor certificate has
> > >> lapsed - I'm half-way through and pretty dreadful!  Even on this
> > >> course I've noticed about half my fellow students have been taken on
> > >> without enough experience to get assessing jobs.  I've already been
> > >> offered work and once I'm up and running Sue will do the course - the
> > >> thinking is that we would be able to do a day a week each after we
> > >> retire to fund some travelling.
> > >> It's not teaching that proved the problem for me Allan - more the
> > >> difficulty in doing what was right for students - I'd be quite happy
> > >> doing lab work with some.  Thanks for the kind words Molly - if I'm
> > >> honest what I'd really like a crack at would be the banksters and
> > >> crooked politicians.  Rigs has me right in this respect.  I must tidy
> > >> up the novel so I can send you guys a copy.
>
> > >> On Feb 11, 12:49 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > There is a much to be admired in your willingness to let go of the
> > >> > seeming crap and move into opportunities that seem to have more
> > >> > value.  I use the word seem because, for me, it is always a leap of
> > >> > faith and I am rarely sure.  Your recognition of the opportunities
> > >> > around you is also encouraging.  I am with rigs, I doubt if your days
> > >> > will ever be uninteresting.  You do seem to find it.
>
> > >> > On Feb 10, 7:11 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > I'm doing the assignments for my assessor certificate this week
> > (mine
> > >> > > lapsed)- the course is hopeless but I need the ticket.  The purpose
> > is
> > >> > > to get work I feel is less of a rip-off than university teaching.
> >  We
> > >> > > muddle along!
>
> > >> > > On Feb 10, 9:12 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > Agreed.
>
> > >> > > > On Febng1:29 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > I have noticed, over the years, that much 'purpose' is something
> > >> > > > > else
> > >> > > > > - seemingly fabricated - as in mission statements as bad as
> > higher
> > >> > > > > education institutions 'being about' providing high quality
> > >> > > > > educational experiences - something one could hardly think of as
> > >> > > > > differentiating one from another.  In practice we seem to be
> > >> > > > > limited
> > >> > > > > to making the same old mistakes with statements of purpose
> > >> > > > > connected
> > >> > > > > with fantasy.  We might do better to think more in terms of
> > >> > > > > structuring opportunities to nurture each other.
>
> > >> > > > > On 10 Feb, 15:30, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > I think purpose is relevant to us, until it is not, like cause
> > >> > > > > > and
> > >> > > > > > effect is important until, it is not.
>
> > >> > > > > > On Feb 9, 10:42 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > That seems about right ID10.  The world is perspectival -
> > all
> > >> > > > > > > sorts of
> > >> > > > > > > stuff is justified from this perspective and that - many
> > >> > > > > > > societies
> > >> > > > > > > have lived with slavery justified and so on.  All of us are
> > >> > > > > > > brought up
> > >> > > > > > > to believe one parochial set of beliefs or another.  There
> > >> > > > > > > seems to
> > >> > > > > > > have been a time before human perspective.  I think science
> > >> > > > > > > has more
> > >> > > > > > > or less told us our purpose is to develop technology to
> > leave
> > >> > > > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > > planet - but this is purpose limited by assumptions it's
> > >> > > > > > > better to
> > >> > > > > > > survive than not.  It leaves open wider questions of purpose
> > >> > > > > > > that we
> > >> > > > > > > might gather along the way or give up on.  I'm not keen on
> > >> > > > > > > purpose
> > >> > > > > > > gained from religious faith or faith in one's country - we
> > all
> > >> > > > > > > turn
> > >> > > > > > > out to have lots to be ashamed of in these respects.  I'm
> > >> > > > > > > fairly sure
> > >> > > > > > > no that human purpose is now largely irrelevant and our
> > future
> > >> > > > > > > lies in
> > >> > > > > > > machine life.
> > >> > > > > > > .
>
> > >> > > > > > > On Feb 9, 11:31 am, "ID10ToT...@googlemail.com"
>
> > >> > > > > > > <id10tot...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > Does the concept of purpose apply to species lower than
> > >> > > > > > > > humans or only to humans? If it does apply then at what
> > level does it stop,
> > >> > > > > > > > sheep, fish, plans? And in case it stops at some level or
> > ronly applies to
> > >> > > > > > > > humans is this definition based on the species having a
> > spirit or a soul as
> > >> > > > > > > > some body may suggest, or is it based on having a certain
> > level of
> > >> > > > > > > > consciousness? If it's based on the concept of a spirit
> > or a soul then it's
> > >> > > > > > > > a matter of metaphysics and faith. If it's based on
> > consciousness and we are
> > >> > > > > > > > talking in terms of the physical universe in which we
> > live, then by
> > >> > > > > > > > definition purpose would be an invention of the human
> > mind and it would be a
> > >> > > > > > > > matter of definition and how we view the world and view
> > ourselves in it but
> > >> > > > > > > > it would be anything but a universal metaphysical thing
> > on which we all
> > >> > > > > > > > could agree especially that it would look entirely
> > different in the eyes of
> > >> > > > > > > > a more advanced species than our selves.
>
> > >> --
>
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> > --
> >  (
> >   )
> > |_D Allan
>
> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > Of course I talk to myself,
> > Sometimes I need expert advice..
>
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