Re: Mind's Eye Something Allan Said

There is a lot of evidence to support that Allan.

On Feb 24, 7:10 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What I am afraid of is war is very profitable for those that follow
> the path golden calf.
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> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 5:10 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I can see plenty of ways forward James - the real problem seems to be
> > that we have a criminal royalty in place preventing any real politics
> > - a sort of 'Broken City' writ large.  I'd say 1974-5 is when the
> > collapse started (this is when Thatcher was rather strangely elected
> > as Tory leader in a City coup against Heath) - but one can see all the
> > signs looking back much earlier.  I'm no fan of Terminal Quality
> > Management - but note blustering some kwality is enough to get a vice
> > chancellor's job.  Older university staff were appalled at students'
> > lack of politics, balls, interest and rebellion = most of these staff
> > are now gone having been totally incapable of resisting the
> > managerialism of mediocrity because they were too scared about their
> > own livelihoods.  I'd like some time on golden pond like rigs.  I fear
> > the world's royalty are taking us to war.
>
> > On Feb 24, 3:20 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I know many people that were a part of the campus demonstrations of
> >> the times.  They are now executives and politicians, having felt
> >> empowered from the get go.  Influencing the end of the war in Vietnam
> >> and the US civil rights movement as a collective taught many lessons
> >> on social change.  For me, the debris might be collateral damage like
> >> death from drug abuse, growing addiction statistics and the
> >> deconstruction of the family unit (until alternative structures were
> >> developed and accepted for the children in them.)
>
> >> On Feb 24, 8:46 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > I was in my mid 20's. I think the assassinations, sit-ins and burning
> >> > of cities were a shock as I had grown up in what seemed a unified
> >> > America. I don't think anyone I knew was involved in political and
> >> > social unrest/debris.
>
> >> > On Feb 24, 1:13 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > Yeah Rigsy, America existed before you were born..  Metro was attacked
> >> > > during the commie scare and it took a university to protect him.. a
> >> > > very great teacher and botanist..  I remember him as a child what he
> >> > > had..
> >> > > Ah the debris of the 60's  let me see,,  I didn't know enough to start
> >> > > it as I turned 18 in '65 so the debris was all ready started.. and
> >> > > everyone  was older than me or at least the leaders were  seems most
> >> > > of them were your age Rigsy.. so where were you when the debris was
> >> > > being created..??
>
> >> > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 11:42 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > My America existed before you were born. Sorry you all missed those
> >> > > > days. Hope my children have the skills to wade through the debris
> >> > > > starting in the '60's. (No one paid attention to the commie-scare.) I
> >> > > > would appreciate some golden years of my retirement. Today I made a
> >> > > > kettle of Italian sausage minestone soup and and another of chili-
> >> > > > nine pints for the freezer. Watched a Kirk Douglas movie while I
> >> > > > cooked. Last night I watched "Foyle's War" with Michael Kitchen- he
> >> > > > was also in "Reckless". I am doing what I like. Life is good.
>
> >> > > > On Feb 23, 1:57 am, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > >> Something just clicked, for some reason I couldn't sleep and out of
> >> > > >> nowhere a voice asked, "what are you supposed to be doing?" As my
> >> > > >> thoughts go "supposed" was a blurry word, it changes definition and
> >> > > >> context each time I touch it, until every appropriate meaning becomes
> >> > > >> expressed in a web of overlaid narratives. It never results in the
> >> > > >> knowledge everyone else seems to have been born with, "where am I", most
> >> > > >> seem to just know, and are repulsed by such a question.
>
> >> > > >> I'm not sure that I have a solid grasp of the concept of plurality but
> >> > > >> it does seem that much of the time people mostly operate as though such
> >> > > >> a thing does not exist. Not picking on the extreme cases and 'true
> >> > > >> believer' types really, but it seems to be a lost art if it ever were
> >> > > >> one. The lower criteria you mention is more than a veneer of civility
> >> > > >> but I think a healthy orientation toward interpersonal dialogue, perhaps
> >> > > >> a consequence of accepting plural domains, or in hand, on the way toward
> >> > > >> appreciating, etc. This to me is the opposite of overspecialized and
> >> > > >> hypersensitive, reactionary, dogmatic and parochial (ad nauseum)
> >> > > >> attitudes- contrariwise, it is the attitude of building bridges between
> >> > > >> rifts and conflict, promoting problem solving and inoculating against
> >> > > >> cynicism and resentment. It seems that people exercising those skills
> >> > > >> rather than defensive posturing are more likely to be effective, but
> >> > > >> that would likely depend on climate.
>
> >> > > >> Neat word usage Neil, I've never seen supplication used like that. I
> >> > > >> take it you won't be presenting any of the 'systems thinking' management
> >> > > >> seminars? "Just buy 100 copies for your team of educators at 70% retail
> >> > > >> to see amazing productivity gains!" They just learn to pretend better so
> >> > > >> they don't have to go through it again, it's called trauma-induced
> >> > > >> performance gains. The ontologists and programmers might get a tiny bit
> >> > > >> excited. :p
>
> >> > > >> Earlier today I was pondering schemes for producing more and better
> >> > > >> paying lower/middle class jobs and it seems that everything has
> >> > > >> accelerated except job production. It seems we need to revamp and target
> >> > > >> local and regional distribution. If we could cook up a way to generate
> >> > > >> job growth, perhaps in small enterprise, even if it costs money to do so
> >> > > >> the social benefit goes way up on those types of investment. One idea
> >> > > >> (mental halfbakery rather) is to produce a gain on revenues exchanged
> >> > > >> locally and not with corporations over a certain size or banks so the
> >> > > >> more times it goes around the more value people get. This starts
> >> > > >> sounding like local currency and decentralization real quick, and
> >> > > >> apparently that can be a very successful option as well.
>
> >> > > >> "Ask people what they want to do." I'll be mulling over the lines
> >> > > >> between that point and local economies. Facilitation is heavy with big
> >> > > >> businesses, why not take it in the other direction?
>
> >> > > >> On 2/22/2013 9:03 PM, archytas wrote:
>
> >> > > >> > Some time back Allan said (more or less) 'everything is a point of
> >> > > >> > view' - very Nietzsche - but also science.  A bloke called Myrdal was
> >> > > >> > arguing such in the 50's.
>
> >> > > >> > I'm jaded by academic argument.  After a while the major feeling it
> >> > > >> > leaves me with is how self-serving it is and how excluding it is.  You
> >> > > >> > can end up in the sanctimonious position of 'wishing everyone else
> >> > > >> > would get up to speed on learning'.  Nearly all academic argument is
> >> > > >> > sterile and corrupt.  The promises remind me of 'religion for dupes',
> >> > > >> > promising pre-supposition-less states and varieties of 'objectivity'
> >> > > >> > that cannot be achieved much like salvation.  Much of the
> >> > > >> > argumentation ends up with suck-egg assertions we should look at the
> >> > > >> > human world as about "power".  The only pre-supposition-less humans
> >> > > >> > I've met weren't breathing.  None of the ones alive were objective
> >> > > >> > (this includes all scientists and my view of myself as one) - but some
> >> > > >> > met lower criteria like being fair, decent, tactfully honest and
> >> > > >> > prepared to give the other an even break, hospitable, generous ...
>
> >> > > >> > Allan is right - but perspectivalism leaves us with choices between
> >> > > >> > perspectives.  In science we have given up on phlogiston theory and
> >> > > >> > astronomy (despite internal consistency) and have a big record that
> >> > > >> > can be read and followed in practice much as we might do cooking,
> >> > > >> > gardening and so on following books and mother's-knee experience as we
> >> > > >> > go along (this is the tropical fish version of scientific practice).
>
> >> > > >> > What we are taught at school is largely about supplication - to be
> >> > > >> > able to convince employers we are employable, reliable, malleable to
> >> > > >> > their interests - much academic argument is supplication - the writing
> >> > > >> > has much in common with dress codes.  Various closed circles reference
> >> > > >> > holy scrolls, occasionally arguing the toss on what the prophet
> >> > > >> > actually meant.
>
> >> > > >> > I'm for de-schooling and the removal of debt-burdening education - we
> >> > > >> > need to get back to work and learning by living with each other.  I
> >> > > >> > think most of the best academics would prefer that to the current
> >> > > >> > parasitic cloisters.  Given current technology we could ask people
> >> > > >> > what they want to do.  I see no sign of that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > > --
>
> >> > > > ---
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>
> >> > > --
> >> > >  (
> >> > >   )
> >> > > |_D Allan
>
> >> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> > > Of course I talk to myself,
> >> > > Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > --
>
> > ---
>
> ...
>
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