Re: Mind's Eye Re: Good and bad

My neighbor joined a dating service after her divorce and all the men
she met at "just lunch" were married! She paid a large fee and set
about to straighten her teeth, bunions, wardrobe and found happily
ever after later when fixed up by a friend.//My dive into particulars
of DNA was off-course. I like the petty details of traits, I guess,
but am also intrigued why choices are made contrary to self-interest-
like a futile relationship or impossible-to-win war, etc. Is it
wishful thinking or suicidal?

On Mar 23, 12:08 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quite what junk DNA is has raised a big recent controversy - gist athttp://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/24/scientists-attacked-ove...
> I agree with rigs that the term is unfortunate.
> We are seeing something similar to the way physics relates the sub-
> atomic to the cosmological in this area of biology.  In the lab we
> have identified a specific gene that is methylated in obese
> individuals (and not in the slim set).  We can also link this to big
> data (epidemiology) following, say, the children of starving Dutch
> women at the end if WW2 who probably 'suffered' such methylation
> (epigenetics) to help them through the distress.  In later times of
> plenty this made them more susceptible to obesity, insulin resistance
> and diabetes.  The hut is on for 'reverse methylation'.  I agree such
> work will help us move on from superstition.  In another line of work
> it looks as though early treatment (before behavioural symptoms) may
> cure schizophrenia.
>
> I worry at other levels - now being called such as neuroeconomics -
> the example I would give is the use of what we are discovering about
> the brain for management purposes.  I have long treated initiatives we
> can label as 'kwality' with scorn (Peter Drucker was calling them
> union-bashing etc. as long ago as 1950).  Direct dismissal was rarely
> a safe form of organisation behaviour, but I could feign 'enthusiasm'
> and generally ignore them and get on with my job.  Now they say they
> can probe my brain to ensure I comply  For that matter I could once
> pretend to implement such programmes in a certain spirit of irony.
> Now they might give me a 'tri-coder' to detect resistance!  Even this
> might have an up side - imagine being able to report an undeniable
> proof to management that they had no employees dumb enough to support
> excellence, kwality and other such dross!  Conversation over dinner
> might be somewhat dulled if we spent out time pointing such devices at
> each other though rigs!  Watch out for the first one minute dating
> agency providing such!  Arghh"
>
> On Mar 22, 1:06 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Junk is an unfortunate adjective- it sounds too random. My guess is
> > that further selection takes place in this area which selects the
> > strongest marker- or whatever it's called- such in the color of eyes,
> > hair, and other characteristics. There are also generational skips in
> > play. I have noted other strange echoes of a missing parent such as
> > the style of laughter which is a surprise and so many other
> > recognitions. At any rate, we are just beginning to sort through the
> > data in this one area as in others- I think it is called "big data"
> > which will overcome the religious notion of "sins of the father" stuff
> > as well as curses and fate and will hopefully allow a more rational
> > and postive approach/life choices for each unique individual. But it
> > will also cause mischief.
>
> > On Mar 22, 5:16 am, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Not all DNA code for protein. We have non coding DNA called "junk DNA" that
> > > ensure we are all unique. While normal DNA codes for protein to make, for
> > > example a "nose", junk DNA ensures that we grow a nose that "looks" like a
> > > mixture of our father`s and our mother`s nose.
>
> > > On Friday, March 22, 2013 12:36:39 AM UTC+1, Ash wrote:
>
> > > > My thoughts didn't include "junk DNA", my thinking on such terms are
> > > > mixed in that some genes may not be useful or represent just another
> > > > failure point, but also that the supposed junk in one set of
> > > > circumstances may prove quite beneficial in others like a backup, an
> > > > alternate development chain or complex interdependencies we haven't
> > > > observed yet. You may have a connection in mind I haven't gleaned.
>
> > > > Developing the market sounds similar but I am trying to root out an
> > > > aspect of this that doesn't require jumping to a premature conclusion,
> > > > such as in 'intelligent design', materialism, rigid ontologies or
> > > > realism. Thanks for helping me explore here gabby, lets hope some form
> > > > emerges in expression. :)
>
> > > > On 3/21/2013 3:57 AM, gabbydott wrote:
> > > > > Now that sounds more like you. :)
> > > > > What you are describing or asking I now understand/interpret/hear in
> > > > > terms of what I know about what they are trying to find out about
> > > > > "junk DNA". Its purpose/function/added value. As for what you describe
> > > > > as another way, I know/experience/see this in what the companies
> > > > > describe as "developing the market". We are still on topic, aren't we?
>
> > > > > 2013/3/21 James <ashk...@gmail.com <javascript:> <mailto:
> > > > ashk...@gmail.com <javascript:>>>
>
> > > > >     I have a feeling you are being charitable with me gabby (cringe).
> > > > >     What you say makes sense, and should add that the intent I refer
> > > > >     to is in excess of that needed for mere gene survival fitness. In
> > > > >     that sense I consider the adaptations as simulations and the
> > > > >     excess as breaking the barriers of meta-simulation, or in another
> > > > >     way, not just running within time but operating on it by taking
> > > > >     advantage of the rules and finding ways to bend them. Now it is my
> > > > >     turn to ask, does that make sense [to anyone]?
>
> > > > >     On 3/20/2013 3:01 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > > >         I don't know if this is good or bad, but i hear that you
> > > > >         haven't just heard about mirror neurons, that this is a
> > > > >         relatively consciously made up construct, a construct with
> > > > >         intent or purpose. Also it sounds strange when you say that
> > > > >         this neurological mechanism is strange (to you). That's where
> > > > >         my "parallel mirror neurons" come into play, i compare what
> > > > >         you say with what i have heard you saying before and add the
> > > > >         info as well as my judgement on what you say to my internal
> > > > >         "Virtualization" of you. The leap is more of a constant
> > > > >         exercise of differentiating between you and me while operating
> > > > >         on the virtualization of each participant, so to speak. Does
> > > > >         that somehow make sense to you?
>
> > > > >         Of course, I could go back to the group website and search for
> > > > >         the real data on what you have been saying on neurological
> > > > >         mechanisms. But this would be a completely new project. I'd
> > > > >         have to go back and construct a new image with my knowledge of
> > > > >         now.
>
> > > > >         But since you are still alive and still communicating, I find
> > > > >         it much easier and more purposeful to keep on listening to
> > > > >         what you say, to respond to it, and to rely on you saying, if
> > > > >         you disagree. Not a good position for me to be in, more of a
> > > > >         survival strategy. Now that's worth a leap into rethinking
> > > > >         mode. ;)
>
> > > > >         2013/3/20 James <ashk...@gmail.com <javascript:>
> > > > >         <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com <javascript:>> <mailto:
> > > > ashk...@gmail.com <javascript:>
> > > > >         <mailto:ashk...@gmail.com <javascript:>>>>
>
> > > > >             My response was mostly a parallel narrative, my thinking on
> > > > a
> > > > >             personal level is when does a system of components
> > > > >         transcend the
> > > > >             boudaries of automata and begin to engage in the operations
> > > > of
> > > > >             intent. Where does gene fitness adaptation break loose into
> > > > >             something perceiving, interacting, understanding and
> > > > >         mastering? I
> > > > >             have heard that our ability to reflect and interact on an
> > > > >         intimate
> > > > >             level arises from a strange neurological mechanism called
> > > > >         mirror
> > > > >             neurons. If this is something like the virtualization
> > > > >         technologies
> > > > >             we have been building in technology then with a bit more
> > > > >         scale and
> > > > >             pondering our science may make the leap logarithmically.
>
> > > > >             On 3/18/2013 8:15 PM, James wrote:
>
> > > > >                 I see this sometimes too Andrew, and we learn how our
> > > > >         internal
> > > > >                 systems and culture drive and shape us, so we can
> > > > >         create. We
> > > > >                 model from the simplest sensory stimuli on to
> > > > >         reflections on
> > > > >                 the nature of our existence and what could be in a
> > > > >                 simultaneous simulation of reality. Our world can be
> > > > >         full of
> > > > >                 intent, or I should say we experience it thus due to our
> > > > >                 capacity arising from our nature and drawing parables
> > > > >         in the
> > > > >                 mist. It makes me wonder how many levels of abstraction,
> > > > >                 simulation and foresight are necessary to represent
> > > > >         the human
> > > > >                 element. That minds like ours are derived from nature is
> > > > >                 astonishing and awe inspiring, that we reach so far
> > > > >         and yet
> > > > >                 innocence is so fragile, the experience of awareness
> > > > >         is far
> > > > >                 from today's science I think. Our synthetic
> > > > >         counterparts or
> > > > >                 robots will have to wait.
>
> ...
>
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>
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