Re: Mind's Eye What to do about the rich?

Our great victory over the Armada is over-written rugs and had a lot
to do with the weather and Dutch. One has to agree wealth is usually
amassed on the broken backs of others, I don't think we need to be so
libidinal or mean given new technology. I would have liked to spend
more time with literature - I did music for a long time - enough to
know I was no good. I'm not much affected by the arts and certainly
have no talent or even representational ability in such. It's not
that I don't appreciate such - I get wowed but it's never enough in-
itself for me - I suspect too many people have lost out in modern
culture - I can barely remember a rugby coach without a guitar and
choruses of American Pie and Classical Gas to prove I had a sensitive
side to doubting ladies. I can appreciate local talent nights - just
hate to see them on television. I spent 4 hours in the Vatican just
to see a Raphael and a Holbeck. Of course, I spent weeks with the Ma
and Wang paper on the dark-adjusted field equations I'm sure I posted
here as a tease.. There's a beauty in such that never materialises
from economic regressions. You are in what passes for my prayer too.

On Mar 30, 3:02 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> no rigsy not all RC Property and wealth belongs to rome,,,  all of the
> european wealth (old money) either came off the backs of the poor or was
> stolen else where.. with rare exception..
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> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 1:45 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would have to say that all RC property and wealth "belonged" to
> > Rome, in a sense.//What about the Armada victory? A navy has to start
> > somewhere, afterall. :-)//Yes- I took away some thoughts to savor and
> > save after the Tudor classes. The prof had attended Oxford and had
> > delightful asides. I called him about a paper and lo and behold he
> > lived in one of my childhood homes! He invited me to go through but I
> > declined- it would have disturbed my memories, perhaps. He retired a
> > few years ago.// Money just replaced lineage and land...more portable.
> > But it cannot replace education and other qualities.//I read you last
> > night and felt blue afterwards- reminded me of Anthony Burgess-
> > "Nothing Like the Sun"- in its energy. I often pray for you and
> > others. But I loved Chaucer (read in Middle English) and Milton and
> > only audited Shakespeare as a course or picked up works in other
> > courses. I have some favorites of Yeats and read up on Maud Gonne who
> > intrigued me.//
>
> > On Mar 30, 1:28 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I'm not sure the Papacy ever owned the dissolved monasteries rigs,
> > > though the process did fund about 30 ships.  A hundred years later we
> > > were floating joint stock companies to attack Spain - a failed Drake-
> > > Norris expedition being the first (£80K only returning £30K in
> > > plunder).  The Royal Navy comes much later with the Act of Union
> > > (1707) and it's around then money was raised by the Bank of England.
> > > I would have fancied a maritime Robin Hood raid on the Vatican myself.
> > > I don't see this rich thing as about class - it's more to do with
> > > social structuring through 'money as power' - as a famous poem stated,
> > > there's no point in changing the rulers.
> > >  THE GREAT DAY (W.B. Yeats in Montague 1974:239)
>
> > > Hurrah for revolution and more cannon-shot!
> > > A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot.
> > > Hurrah for revolution and cannon come again!
> > > The beggars have changed places, but the lash goes on.
>
> > > Not only do we have to get rid of the rich, we need to ensure no new
> > > group forms - this was the idea of classical economics - to remove the
> > > drain of economic rents on production.  All the current fuss is
> > > because we failed to do this - nearly all the complaints about welfare
> > > drains to the poor and so on are irrelevant.  The welfare queens are
> > > the banks.
>
> > > The obvious thing is that we are being told, after massive increases
> > > in technology and productivity, we are worse off.  On preference I'd
> > > want no part in the idiot system but it's hard to keep wolves from the
> > > door without taking the establishment mark - unless you luck in to
> > > something.  Tudor history help much when you worked at the S & L rigs?
> > > (in the same way my quantum chemistry didn't when teaching bankers) -
> > > I have a feeling we may discover how useless the banksters have really
> > > been this year.
>
> > > On 29 Mar, 21:23, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I also remember how the german currency went to worthless also.. I am
> > > > thinking about what the man said abou the fiction of currency
>
> > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:54 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Spot on on Lagarde rigs.  Her flat was raided in a criminal enquiry.
> > > > >  She may have had a role in a dodgy French arms' deal with Pakistan
> > > > > where bribes were kicked back to fund the Franco-GOP candidate in a
> > > > > presidential election.  I can remember playing musical chairs as a
> > kid
> > > > > - I liked the running about and bumping into girls (this was the
> > other
> > > > > way round) but had no clue the idea was not to be left standing,
> > > > > wondering why deviant adults kept stealing the chairs.  I submit the
> > > > > long adult version with child replaced by gawping scientist.
>
> > > > > It is impossible to apply hard science to these issues. I do
> > sometimes
> > > > > try to think as a scientist without knowledge of economics –
> > difficult
> > > > > as I teach the subject in business context. I always find, in this
> > > > > thought experiment, that I just would not start with concepts from
> > > > > economics. A key finding in 'anthropological archaeology' is that the
> > > > > lives of a certain class of people got worse with our turn to
> > > > > agriculture – something we might call 'broken back syndrome amongst
> > > > > the sod turners'. A book of examples later, I conclude the problem
> > > > > with real-world economics – the theories-in-action as opposed to
> > > > > espoused – is that it has no way of fairly organising work and reward
> > > > > against such ideals we might cherish like real democracy and proper
> > > > > guardianship of the planet. This no doubt looks like naive thinking.
> > I
> > > > > then find myself thinking about how we organise such matters as 'a
> > > > > trip to Mars' (Newton, Einstein, the 3-body problem, moving space and
> > > > > down to stuff like the crew having to line (with proper hygiene) the
> > > > > craft with their excrement to protect against 'space weather'. Lots
> > of
> > > > > other complex systems flow – the arms' race of co-evolution,
> > combating
> > > > > Lyme's disease, parasitism as the most common lifestyle – and I find
> > > > > myself questioning why I an feel some much more competent as a
> > > > > scientist than economist or increasingly disaffected cog in the
> > > > > political machine.
> > > > > Popper once pointed out that Freud and Marx could not be scientific
> > > > > because if you went against the theories you were immediately in
> > > > > denial or false-consciousness. As we repeatedly see "economics"
> > > > > destroy the potential of most ordinary lives (and those of the few
> > > > > through hedonism in a libidinal economy) we are told it is because we
> > > > > just won't engage in real free markets – the neoclassic form of the
> > > > > denial-false-consciousness routine.
> > > > > I'm less inclined to worry who is next to go under as a country in
> > the
> > > > > great depression (I guess Luxembourg, Switzerland, UK – though all
> > > > > bets are off if the USD goes down) – but on how and why we are in
> > > > > thrall to a mad control fraud that keeps on failing. Invited on a
> > > > > space ship to Mars built by economists I would simply wish the crew
> > > > > godspeed and utter a silent atheist prayer, noting that oars are an
> > > > > unlikely propulsion system. If the crew were Critical Theorists I'd
> > > > > want to save, I'd be happy in the thought none of them could row.
> > > > > Deep down we seem scared of the idea of a world of people with enough
> > > > > "money and security" to be able to tell power they will only work for
> > > > > "things and a quality of life" they want. I have instant reservations
> > > > > about this state myself as a manager and through experience of free-
> > > > > loading and the dire trivia most people "want" – from plastic crap,
> > > > > neat mobile phones to Saudi princes raiding Syrian refugee camps for
> > > > > wives. Nonetheless, with much of 'Robot Heaven' with us in principle
> > > > > and some practice, the lack of modern thought experiments (such as
> > > > > what place Calvinist work ethic would have in 100% Robot Heaven – how
> > > > > could we morally keep people poor when machines do all the work etc?)
> > > > > and repeated fetish concerns with homilies from the 18th century
> > > > > leaves me cold.
>
> > > > > The current model seems no better than handing over bags of
> > electronic
> > > > > cash to people who trouser it and at most engage in acts of charity
> > > > > similar to pouring slops over a medieval monastery wall. In the UK we
> > > > > have a Chancellor so smart he has just created a British Fanny Mae/
> > > > > Freddy Mac! As one country after another faces becoming Cyprus (by
> > the
> > > > > end of next week we will be discovering we don't know the half of
> > that
> > > > > – note three old-fogey judges are already rostered for the cover-up)
> > > > > we have no politics of lancing the banking boil generally and
> > > > > production-based (responsible type) schemes for people to work their
> > > > > way out of the mess without seeing the toil go to paying off bank
> > > > > debts.
>
> > > > > I agree with Allan that all this is really about the rich stealing.
> > > > >  What we lack is a conception of a fairer society that makes sense of
> > > > > what people would be in it.  I share rigs' concerns with the
> > 'ash-grey
> > > > > uniform of equality' and big government, but we can at least dream up
> > > > > something in which this would not come about.  "They" certainly seem
> > > > > to be putting the wind up us - making us feel money in the bank may
> > as
> > > > > well be hidden about the house - yet somewhere we seem to have
> > > > > forgotten how quickly economies can recover as Germany and Japan did
> > > > > after WW2.
>
> > > > > On 29 Mar, 14:39, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > henry the 8th was all about divorce..    So it is okay to steal
> > what is
> > > > > > freely given to the church and use it to line you pockets or royal
> > > > > > treasury..   what you are saying is it is okay to steal as long as
> > you
> > > > > can
> > > > > > blame others for your wrong doing..  there is a great litany of
> > excuses
> > > > > the
> > > > > > rich use for stealing ...   wonder if these excuses work with God
> > as you
> > > > > > understand him..
>
> > > > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:04 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > The wealth and lands of the Church were part of papal wealth. The
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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