Re: Mind's Eye What to do about the rich?

As the dust settles here and there I hope that more many people become
more aware together, from that I guess we will see if more intentional
existence arises. So much is uncertain, except that divided we are
pecked at and invisible, almost proverbial and perennial at the same time.

Partially inspiring song gabby, I have to cut it short to write quickly
here. The song made me reflect on predators in the jungle..

On 3/12/2013 1:37 PM, Allan H wrote:
> Sorry Gabby I both listened to and read (several times) and the truth
> is I see nothing .. I reads like a very shallow person just putting
> words together to make a so called song...
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:29 PM, gabbydott <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am trying to get used to music from the cloud. It's a bit too easy to say
>> I support the Light. The homeopathic effect of synaesthetic perception needs
>> time and space to disappear. How mistaken I was about linguistic shortcuts.
>> Here is a song/album from my recent heavy rotation list for/against Neil's
>> frustration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbGJgrBsgng (hope it works over
>> at your place, I can't see it here in Germany).
>>
>>
>> 2013/3/11 Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com>
>>> I know what you mean Neil,, Seems that change is starting.. the
>>> Doctors over here started a web page against tobacco.. and they are
>>> revealing those legislator that are being influenced by the tobacco
>>> lobby.. it seems like light is beginning shine in the darkness..
>>> I support the Light.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:45 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The madness of it is they got us thinking their interests were our
>>>> interests. Adam Smith warned against that at some length.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 8, 2:16 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> You would think that over the centuries man would learn.. actually I
>>>>> think it is starting to happen with the new banking laws coming into
>>>>> play. hand shake deals will becoming to an end and taxes where the
>>>>> rich like it or not will have to be paid.. off shore banks will be
>>>>> finding it much more difficult to transfer money..
>>>>>
>>>>> Oddly before long there will be more careful examination ass to where
>>>>> wealth came from and how it was created.. there appear to be grass
>>>>> root changes taking place.. Neil that is where sound direction is
>>>>> needed .. a place for these roots to grow and better society.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 12:50 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> There have been many good points made in what has been said here. Yet
>>>>>> I do
>>>>>> believe that at this stage of our evolution we must know our past by
>>>>>> heart
>>>>>> and keep on acting with/on a common forward orientation. What I see
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> described as a phenomenon at the top, I see happening at the
>>>>>> grassroots
>>>>>> level also. Heaven and Hell meet where the airspace allows for dust
>>>>>> particles to form clouds and where the earth evaporates conceivable
>>>>>> amounts
>>>>>> of sulfuric gasses. After all that has been freed from a Pawlowian
>>>>>> drooling
>>>>>> reflex and is being seen as potentially deconstructable, Connectivism
>>>>>> is the
>>>>>> new tribalism operating at both ends. Goethe's "Wahlverwandschaften"
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> read through the chemist's glasses. There is no back to family
>>>>>> visits when
>>>>>> you are busy building your tribe. The foam carpet is not being
>>>>>> exposed by
>>>>>> highlighting its most spectacular and fluorescent bubbles.
>>>>>> 2013/3/8 archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have
>>>>>>> wealth
>>>>>>> concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
>>>>>>> (Justice
>>>>>>> Louis Brandeis)
>>>>>>> The rich are independent of the rest of us. Obviously they are
>>>>>>> materially independent so long as their property rights remain
>>>>>>> recognized. They can achieve what they want by themselves, that is
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> buying it from others or paying someone else to do it for them. But
>>>>>>> this power of command also generates a social distance from society
>>>>>>> that allows them to become 'ethically independent'. Since they don't
>>>>>>> depend on the goodwill of others to succeed - for example, few of
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> have recognisable jobs - they may become less concerned in general
>>>>>>> about whether they deserve goodwill.
>>>>>>> That means that the rich don't have the same political interests as
>>>>>>> the rest of us. They aren't worried about crime (their gated
>>>>>>> communities come with private security) or the quality of public
>>>>>>> education (their kids go to the fanciest schools money can buy) or
>>>>>>> affordable accessible health care, job security, public parks, gas
>>>>>>> prices, environmental quality, or most of the other issues that the
>>>>>>> rest of us have no choice but to care about, and to care about
>>>>>>> politically since they are outside of our individual powers to fix.
>>>>>>> The political concerns of the rich do not lie in the provision of
>>>>>>> public goods, but in furthering their private interests, whether
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> personal wealth and power or their political whimsies. This is why
>>>>>>> Adam Smith warned us so vehemently to be suspicious of their self-
>>>>>>> serving rhetoric (e.g. WN I.11.264).
>>>>>>> It is sometimes thought that the rich are necessary to the
>>>>>>> flourishing
>>>>>>> of a free market economy, that because they have more wealth than
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> need for their own consumption it is their investment of capital
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> makes the economy spin around and create jobs. Thus the claim that
>>>>>>> there is a trade-off between democracy and material prosperity. But
>>>>>>> that 'job creator' thesis is out of date and back to front.
>>>>>>> First, while in Adam Smith's time it might have been true that
>>>>>>> economic development required capitalists to reinvest their profits
>>>>>>> this was because everyone else was too poor. But these days the
>>>>>>> economies of democratic societies are characterized by a broad
>>>>>>> middle-
>>>>>>> class whose savings are quite sufficient for funding business
>>>>>>> development and expansion (such as through the share-ownership of
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> pension funds or the bank loans backed by our deposits).
>>>>>>> Second, the greater the wealth inequality, the worse we may expect
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> economy to perform. A flourishing economy requires customers as well
>>>>>>> as investors. If the gains of economic productivity are
>>>>>>> overwhelmingly
>>>>>>> transferred to some small group (as profits) that means that they
>>>>>>> don't go to ordinary people (as wages). (For example, since 1979 all
>>>>>>> the productivity gains of America's economy have gone to the richest
>>>>>>> 1%.) The implications are, first, that economic growth does not
>>>>>>> increase national prosperity because it does not increase the
>>>>>>> economic
>>>>>>> command of ordinary people to satisfy our wants (which is how Smith
>>>>>>> defined the wealth of nations). And, second, economic growth itself
>>>>>>> will eventually suffer since high inequality limits the extent of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> market (fewer customers) and thus the scope for innovation.
>>>>>>> Hence my modest proposal. We should first identify with some
>>>>>>> precision
>>>>>>> the category of what it seems reasonable to call the rich i.e. those
>>>>>>> people whose capabilities for independence from and command over the
>>>>>>> rest of us crosses the threshold between enviable affluence and
>>>>>>> aristocratic privilege. Then, when anyone in our society lands in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> category of the problematic rich we should say, as at the end of a
>>>>>>> cheesy TV game show, "Congratulations, you won the economy game!
>>>>>>> Well
>>>>>>> done." And then we should offer them a choice: give it away (hold a
>>>>>>> potlatch, give it to Oxfam, their favourite art museum foundation,
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> whatever) or cash out their winnings and depart our society forever,
>>>>>>> leaving their citizenship at the door on their way out. Since the
>>>>>>> rich
>>>>>>> are, um, rich, they have all the means they need to make a new life
>>>>>>> for themselves elsewhere, and perhaps even inveigle their way into
>>>>>>> citizenship in a country that is less picky than we are. So I'm sure
>>>>>>> they'll do just fine. Still, we can let them back in to visit family
>>>>>>> and friends a few days a year - there's no need to be vindictive.
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>> --
>>>>> (
>>>>> )
>>>>> |_D Allan
>>>>>
>>>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course I talk to myself,
>>>>> Sometimes I need expert advice..
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> (
>>> )
>>> |_D Allan
>>>
>>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>>
>>> Of course I talk to myself,
>>> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>>>
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>>>
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>
>

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