Re: Mind's Eye Re: Friendship

Great transformation Allan - not that I go much by personal looks, but
I'll be your friend now! Rigs' discovery game got me thinking. Only
7% of our language is declared in what we say - we read body language,
hormones, brain states - I even see shadows and auras at some times -
and you can add to that at least 9 varieties of argument types
including the eristic (in which ad hom is not necessarily a fallacy).
My suspicion, for many years, has been that objective-dispassionate
argument is a con - if we were capable of it I doubt advertising could
work. One wonders whether we ever get to "discovery".

I think we can safely say we can't build my 'relativity flight
machine' - let's blame Allan for refusing to lend me his hammer! The
farce in the thought experiment seems to many to be postulating
machine we can't build - but many of physic's experiments were once so
fantastic - we needed to send an evacuated lead balloon into space to
test some Einstein. My fascination with relativity flight (real
Planet of the Apes) is ludic. I'd probably like science fiction if
there was any. I've never come across any that engages biology other
than translating our present into gravity conditions we can't survive
and the stories are about such as friendship. We have no literature
I'm aware of that imagines a world in which we don't recreate old
chestnut human relations like friendship, love, hatred, revenge and
the usual soap. Relativity flight strikes me as restricted by
something much the same. We bubble our existing selves into the
future - but we do this by slowing everything in our speeding bubble
down whilst the outside ages as normal. The solar system we leave
disappears and our destination is a point in space-time yet to form as
it will be then (with us as 21st century earth-humans in it).

I'd guess we have already done something a bit like this. We are all
essentially primitive, small competing group humans ill-adjusted to
the modern, global world, perhaps as unsuited as relativity flight
humans would be emerging a couple of billion years into the future.
It could be that our notions of stuff like friendship are way off the
mark needed for modern society. Women were once stuck with economic
dependence and putting up with whatever went on in marriages - we
don't seem to remain friends on divorce as a rule - so what might
friendship mean really?



On May 4, 4:37 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Friendship ia a response to life..  and a friend would not ask you to cover
> up for them..  the old definition for politician was a professorial liar..
>
> had a hair transplant was tired of being bald  ..
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>  [image: Inline image 1]
>
> the plastic surgery was optional but I though it was an improvement
> ;o)
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> On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:12 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Psychopaths are the best liars rigs - that's why we elect them.  I
> > can't remember a single case cracked by spotting the liar - other than
> > in trapping people against facts I could check.  There is something
> > wrong, in logic, with the old chestnut 'All Cretans are liars.  I am a
> > Cretan'.  The problem is that natural languages are not formally
> > logical.  If asked by someone you considered a friend to lie about an
> > alibi concerning where he was when child abuse took place, friendship
> > is not really the issue, but how easily one was gulled into it and how
> > to leave it.  We have a tendency to make absolute things that are
> > not.  One can rather strangely love someone more because the 'I love
> > you' stuff isn't necessary and nor is the perpetuation of the
> > condition of 'first swoon'.  I would lie to Nazis on anything and
> > everything I could muster the courage so to do.  I suspect, in rather
> > strange relation to this, that we are all living on our knees beneath
> > economics - a situation that prevents much moral action and has us
> > living a lie.
>
> > On 3 May, 14:10, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Sometimes silence is another form of cover-up/protection/shame. Or
> > > taking the blame oneself for a husband/wife to avoid additional
> > > scandal/mess. I don't lie very well- in fact I drop hints like it's a
> > > discovery game!
>
> > > On May 2, 7:46 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Very difficult question.  I have lied for friends.  The context is
> > > > all.
>
> > > > On 2 May, 19:46, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I may not brake the law for a friend..  that does not mean I am not
> > their
> > > > > friend and will stand by a friend and do what I can to help them..
>
> > > > > I think friendship is something special
>
> > > > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:19 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > The ultimate would be to sacrifice your life for a
> > friend/child/love/
> > > > > > stranger. What about the law- being an accessory to a crime. Might
> > be
> > > > > > like a poker game and knowing when to hold and when to fold. Also
> > > > > > consider if sin/grace are applicable to conscience/behavior. What
> > > > > > about the courage to stand alone? Maybe one has the wrong
> > friends.Also
> > > > > > consider the influence of money and sex. Also the matter of what's
> > > > > > acceptable in war and not in civilian life or how certain acts are
> > > > > > justified- abortion is okay but killing a pregnant woman is double
> > > > > > homicide- when did that fetus assume human status? Is loving
> > adultery
> > > > > > holier than a hellish, brutal marriage? Etc, etc., etc.
>
> > > > > > On May 2, 12:42 pm, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > It seemed as though my 'minds' life was dead.. but i was just
> > doing
> > > > > > > this term paper on Aristotle and Derrida on friendship and a
> > question
> > > > > > > came to me... .. i came across something that Cicero said i
> > think..
> > > > > > > that it is the law that one should not ask a friend for an
> > unlawful
> > > > > > > thing... or that wrong doing done for a friend is not excused,
> > now the
> > > > > > > Greeks were a little tough on virtue.. and i quite agree with
> > them..
> > > > > > > but for most us i think it would be difficult to determine
> > whether a
> > > > > > > thing is moral or immoral.. in more subtle cases in mean.. how
> > do you
> > > > > > > decide whether refusing to do an immoral thing for the sake of
> > your
> > > > > > > friend is really out of conscience or is it cowardice in the
> > time of
> > > > > > > problem.. is it a test of friendship?.... They say that one
> > loves one
> > > > > > > friend like one's self then would one punish one's friend like
> > one
> > > > > > > would one's self?Or is it that it is absolute and blind love
> > that will
> > > > > > > make one do anything for the sake of a friend... for example if
> > our
> > > > > > > friend committed a crime... this is just one example.. you guys
> > can
> > > > > > > think of lots others... Also would one think of troubling a
> > friend
> > > > > > > when one finds ones' self in a moral dilemma ... would one
> > expect much
> > > > > > > from them and think them traitor if they don't take our sides...
> > > > > > > please feel free to add more thoughts to this.. and do say what
> > you
> > > > > > > think..
>
> > > > > > --
>
> > > > > > ---
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> > > > > --
> > > > >  (
> > > > >   )
> > > > > |_D Allan
>
> > > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > > > Of course I talk to myself,
> > > > > Sometimes I need expert advice..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
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> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> Of course I talk to myself,
> Sometimes I need expert advice..
>
>  image.png
> 209KViewDownload

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