Re: Mind's Eye money question

Money making money is not a good thing Allan. I'd go for some very
radical changes. We should sequestrate the rich (they are actually
doing this to us now), bump up minimum wages and conditions and start
again. There is historical precedent - Graeber's 'Debt; the first
5000 years' gives some clues, as does Steve Keen's economics. I'd go
for a salary and wealth cap too. It strikes me we are too mean with
everything and yet entirely profligate on matters that hurt the planet
or people with no power.

It turns out the Romans had concrete that is more durable than modern
stuff and uses a lot less energy in production (concrete contributes
7% of CO2 through cement production). We are slow learners!

On 7 June, 04:54, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> woke up this morning with a weird dream about people creating DNA to
> validate false wills..  was weird needed to get it out of my head,,
>
> good workman are easier to verify over in England/Scotland than they are in
> the US..
>
> Money is necessary for everyday activity  giving a common exchange (also
> make it taxable)  where it develops into a problem is as Pope Francis put
> it "Money with out purpose".  when the sole purpose is to make more money
>  you have a problem.  When I was sailing I ran into a man who's dream was
> to to be a cruising sailor "living on a sailboat and wandering around"  His
> wife asked me to excuse his behavior,, telling me that was his dream,,  he
> sacrificed that dream because if he followed that the employees of the 17 ?
> could be bad memory? would lose their jobs. She referred to me as being one
> of his heroes..  I remember thinking that this man was a true hero because
> he was putting the welfare of others above his own pleasures..  to me this
> would be an excellent example of money with purpose.
>
> Because money is stuffed in the stock market to make more money does not
> give it purpose,  or off shore to avoid paying ones share of taxes..  that
> does not give it money with purpose..  I do believe that money can have
> purpose not just for the purpose of creating more wealth following the
> Golden Calf ..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:36 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Better sing along with Ian Drury and hope she's not carrying a big
> > stick James!  I'm a fan.
>
> > I still do most of our repairs rigs - mostly to avoid the kind of
> > problems you are having.  I've moved too often to know people I can
> > trust.
>
> > I actually share rigs' concerns on what we might term the uniform
> > society.  I don't see politics as very important in this as we really
> > have none - just economic ideology.  Chomsky has a fair version of
> > anarchy.  My own view is a thesis 'against time immemorial' - broadly
> > that we are stuck with non-modern ideologies, including ignorance of
> > our biology - in a crude sense I'd recommend a start in watch female
> > primates stalking their sexual 'victims' - a non-standard view of
> > female sexuality to say the least.
>
> > Our institutions are now very real problems - but this doesn't mean we
> > need to tear them down to get the truth out - the basis of the 'all
> > truth lies in the main destruction' slogan of anarchism.  We are
> > missing something at rigs' 'do no harm' level - we either all count in
> > front of the law or it isn't worth spit kind of thing.  Yet it's
> > deeper somehow.
>
> > My guess is our work ethic is wrong.  The big fact here is
> > productivity and the lack of analysis of how much work needs doing by
> > humans.  Money is ideological in this, as well as something we spend
> > on food etc.  I'm not against hard work  but I hate being ripped off
> > as per rigs' roof thing or the TARP/QE thing.  The heraldry of our
> > times might well be Allan's 'golden calf rampant'.  I don't think we
> > understand how little work there is to do or that wealth distribution
> > is out of order.
>
> > As an example, clever financial services we might describe as
> > 'intercoursing the rehypothecated derivative repo' makes sense for the
> > first few people or companies doing it in terms of standard profit and
> > loss - but once everyone is at it you just have to pay for extra
> > chores or costs the performance entails.  By the time everyone is
> > doing the complex stuff there is no competitive advantage in it - and
> > what we see is big companies stealing tax through the mechanisms - an
> > anti-competitive restrictive practice against small firms who can't do
> > offshore transfer pricing.   We end up paying for a lot of financial
> > services we don't need - and the amount is vast.
>
> > On 6 June, 23:35, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I hope it doesn't sound like a straw man setup for anyone here, I'm just
> > > weaving in and out, which I must say many here do a pretty good job of!
> > > What I mean to say is hit me Gabby! :)
>
> > > On 6/6/2013 12:34 AM, James wrote:
>
> > > > Heh, did you switch envy and resentment around Rigs? Kidding with you,
> > > > but you may be onto something. In my older years I've gotten a chance
> > > > to expand my acquaintanceships to include the more hawklike
> > > > peacocks/roosters and have noticed a parallel to the jugular glamor in
> > > > prestige of affluence. A repartite sqoundrel no doubt is the name I'd
> > > > know if I opened my mouth today, there were more banal terms for it
> > > > more appropriate than 'hypocrisy'. They were all meaningless to me
> > > > anyways, I can count on one hand a few times I said 'Hey!' with added
> > > > pulp fiction vernacular, a little humorous that it was the same notice
> > > > in every instance. My fiancee is the only one who knows me to have
> > > > humor and I do impressions of things she hears about or we see in
> > > > movies while explaining a little on where I'm from, that I hide at all
> > > > other times behind stoicism. Not to betray the strong and quiet,
> > > > that's in there, he just feels like laughing sometimes. They don't put
> > > > the real funny stuff on tv, it's really weak compared to reality and
> > > > Chris Rock is tame relying on racial shock (I consider him a
> > > > half-funny ass, but I like the movie Shrek). Like what a girl shouts
> > > > across the auditorium holding another's hair that drops everyone
> > > > gasping for air in laughter dispatching with whatever lunch was
> > > > midswallow, or another one cussing out a John who wanted credit all
> > > > the way down the block, a teacher flipping out on us. I felt bad for
> > > > the teachers, even if they were clueless. They were barking up the
> > > > wrong tree when interviewing certain troubled teens after Columbine,
> > > > people would've done better to pull their heads out of wherever. All
> > > > my friends are survivalist, I grew up around guns and black markets,
> > > > played the heck out of Doom, the Jolly Roger cookbook was toilet
> > > > reading material but I enjoyed reading philosophy, and any Popular
> > > > Mechanics or science material I could find. In terms of judgement it
> > > > means nothing, but hearing people's thoughts is very rewarding,
> > > > including yours. I lost my point somewhere. If I find it, I'm sure it
> > > > will be very relevant to the classes. :p
>
> > > > Genetic inequality seems a faux pas but I think it has an influence on
> > > > developing skill and intelligence of sorts, and no doubt also in how
> > > > one meets the multitude of influences pushing the genes into
> > > > activation and adaptation. IMO the distribution of trait-wise acuity
> > > > should be about even, with the exception of cognitive and
> > > > psychological disorders. It seems certain emotional deficiencies can
> > > > under the right circumstances lead to successful outcomes (financially
> > > > that is), but under others lead to more apparent disaster. Cultural
> > > > values and myth come into play for sure in how that is levied. I'd
> > > > take an arrogant industrialist any day over a megalo-sociopath bent on
> > > > vengeance but that doesn't mean I'll be blind to the likelihood of
> > > > equally or more dangerous consequences because the former is
> > > > enshrined. The brain seems highly adaptable too, and in evolving
> > > > processes timing seems a crucial element as we meet the challenge of
> > > > the day with whatever limitations we might have. Something good/bad
> > > > can happen to anyone, something amazing can come from anywhere. What I
> > > > get from this is that statistically speaking we should seek to improve
> > > > the likelihood of good outcomes in how we solve problems and formulate
> > > > a way forward to include the likelihood that whatever benefit each may
> > > > provide is realized within the whole of humanity. I know that sounds a
> > > > little like BS. ;-)
>
> > > >  and I haven't heard it included in something more than confirmation
> > > > bias or to express futility.
>
> > > > On 6/4/2013 11:06 PM, rigs wrote:
> > > >> I think resentment is a basic cause of envy between the classes. But
> > > >> some are smarter, industrious, creative, etc. You can't equalize those
> > > >> qualities unless you re-do DNA or live in a society of robots. You
> > > >> have a media that promotes a certain mode of success- mostly built on
> > > >> wealth and possessions. You have fractured families due to the social
> > > >> movements of the last century. Yet, I do see progress also.//I see "Do
> > > >> no harm" as don't make matters worse through ignorance or arrogance.
> > > >> Not sure the Ideal is a human possibility.
>
> > > >> On Jun 4, 2:38 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> it is extremely difficult to stay within guidelines..I am sure the
> > > >>> guidelines of "Do no harm" is among the most difficult ans on the
> > > >>> verge of
> > > >>> impossibility..   the problem lies within meditation of the
> > variations
> > > >>> there of and how does one balance the center line without drifting
> > from
> > > >>> side to side
>
> > > >>> Hypocrite "No" not when a person is striving to accomplish the ideal
>
> > > >>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:46 PM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>> If one gains a mistrust of ambition too well it can stifle their
> > > >>>> degrees
> > > >>>> of movement. I want to read Frederick Douglass, I've tried before
> > > >>>> but felt
> > > >>>> compromised when the inner fire posed a challenge to my discipline.
> > It
> > > >>>> wasn't the words on the page that lights my soul ablaze (if I may)
> > > >>>> but the
> > > >>>> chains missing from the depiction of our lady. I know the beauty
> > Allan
> > > >>>> speaks of truth, but I dare not touch or mar it, for many she is
> > > >>>> deaf and
> > > >>>> blind, for some a gasp of air while struggling with the undertow, a
> > > >>>> crack
> > > >>>> in the world (ditto).
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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