Re: Mind's Eye money question

They are very inter-related, Allan. So are property right-of-ways
(railroads) and eminent domain and control of resources. The
regulations and laws are set by legislators and presidential decree.

You would not believe the drama of this garage roof but it's coming
off and being redone if I have to skin it myself!

On Jun 7, 9:13 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the government and stock market are two different worlds..
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:59 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Money losing money is where we are at with our debt and interest.//
> > People have a right to invest.// A highly centralized government
> > creates a bureaucracy of paper shufflers attempting to manage an
> > economy and other people's money, property and civil rights.
>
> > On Jun 7, 1:48 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Money making money is not a good thing Allan.  I'd go for some very
> > > radical changes.  We should sequestrate the rich (they are actually
> > > doing this to us now), bump up minimum wages and conditions and start
> > > again.  There is historical precedent - Graeber's 'Debt; the first
> > > 5000 years' gives some clues, as does Steve Keen's economics.  I'd go
> > > for a salary and wealth cap too.  It strikes me we are too mean with
> > > everything and yet entirely profligate on matters that hurt the planet
> > > or people with no power.
>
> > > It turns out the Romans had concrete that is more durable than modern
> > > stuff and uses a lot less energy in production (concrete contributes
> > > 7% of CO2 through cement production).  We are slow learners!
>
> > > On 7 June, 04:54, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > woke up this morning with a weird dream about people creating DNA to
> > > > validate false wills..  was weird needed to get it out of my head,,
>
> > > > good workman are easier to verify over in England/Scotland than they
> > are in
> > > > the US..
>
> > > > Money is necessary for everyday activity  giving a common exchange
> > (also
> > > > make it taxable)  where it develops into a problem is as Pope Francis
> > put
> > > > it "Money with out purpose".  when the sole purpose is to make more
> > money
> > > >  you have a problem.  When I was sailing I ran into a man who's dream
> > was
> > > > to to be a cruising sailor "living on a sailboat and wandering around"
> >  His
> > > > wife asked me to excuse his behavior,, telling me that was his dream,,
> >  he
> > > > sacrificed that dream because if he followed that the employees of the
> > 17 ?
> > > > could be bad memory? would lose their jobs. She referred to me as
> > being one
> > > > of his heroes..  I remember thinking that this man was a true hero
> > because
> > > > he was putting the welfare of others above his own pleasures..  to me
> > this
> > > > would be an excellent example of money with purpose.
>
> > > > Because money is stuffed in the stock market to make more money does
> > not
> > > > give it purpose,  or off shore to avoid paying ones share of taxes..
> >  that
> > > > does not give it money with purpose..  I do believe that money can have
> > > > purpose not just for the purpose of creating more wealth following the
> > > > Golden Calf ..
>
> > > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:36 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Better sing along with Ian Drury and hope she's not carrying a big
> > > > > stick James!  I'm a fan.
>
> > > > > I still do most of our repairs rigs - mostly to avoid the kind of
> > > > > problems you are having.  I've moved too often to know people I can
> > > > > trust.
>
> > > > > I actually share rigs' concerns on what we might term the uniform
> > > > > society.  I don't see politics as very important in this as we really
> > > > > have none - just economic ideology.  Chomsky has a fair version of
> > > > > anarchy.  My own view is a thesis 'against time immemorial' - broadly
> > > > > that we are stuck with non-modern ideologies, including ignorance of
> > > > > our biology - in a crude sense I'd recommend a start in watch female
> > > > > primates stalking their sexual 'victims' - a non-standard view of
> > > > > female sexuality to say the least.
>
> > > > > Our institutions are now very real problems - but this doesn't mean
> > we
> > > > > need to tear them down to get the truth out - the basis of the 'all
> > > > > truth lies in the main destruction' slogan of anarchism.  We are
> > > > > missing something at rigs' 'do no harm' level - we either all count
> > in
> > > > > front of the law or it isn't worth spit kind of thing.  Yet it's
> > > > > deeper somehow.
>
> > > > > My guess is our work ethic is wrong.  The big fact here is
> > > > > productivity and the lack of analysis of how much work needs doing by
> > > > > humans.  Money is ideological in this, as well as something we spend
> > > > > on food etc.  I'm not against hard work  but I hate being ripped off
> > > > > as per rigs' roof thing or the TARP/QE thing.  The heraldry of our
> > > > > times might well be Allan's 'golden calf rampant'.  I don't think we
> > > > > understand how little work there is to do or that wealth distribution
> > > > > is out of order.
>
> > > > > As an example, clever financial services we might describe as
> > > > > 'intercoursing the rehypothecated derivative repo' makes sense for
> > the
> > > > > first few people or companies doing it in terms of standard profit
> > and
> > > > > loss - but once everyone is at it you just have to pay for extra
> > > > > chores or costs the performance entails.  By the time everyone is
> > > > > doing the complex stuff there is no competitive advantage in it - and
> > > > > what we see is big companies stealing tax through the mechanisms - an
> > > > > anti-competitive restrictive practice against small firms who can't
> > do
> > > > > offshore transfer pricing.   We end up paying for a lot of financial
> > > > > services we don't need - and the amount is vast.
>
> > > > > On 6 June, 23:35, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I hope it doesn't sound like a straw man setup for anyone here,
> > I'm just
> > > > > > weaving in and out, which I must say many here do a pretty good
> > job of!
> > > > > > What I mean to say is hit me Gabby! :)
>
> > > > > > On 6/6/2013 12:34 AM, James wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Heh, did you switch envy and resentment around Rigs? Kidding
> > with you,
> > > > > > > but you may be onto something. In my older years I've gotten a
> > chance
> > > > > > > to expand my acquaintanceships to include the more hawklike
> > > > > > > peacocks/roosters and have noticed a parallel to the jugular
> > glamor in
> > > > > > > prestige of affluence. A repartite sqoundrel no doubt is the
> > name I'd
> > > > > > > know if I opened my mouth today, there were more banal terms for
> > it
> > > > > > > more appropriate than 'hypocrisy'. They were all meaningless to
> > me
> > > > > > > anyways, I can count on one hand a few times I said 'Hey!' with
> > added
> > > > > > > pulp fiction vernacular, a little humorous that it was the same
> > notice
> > > > > > > in every instance. My fiancee is the only one who knows me to
> > have
> > > > > > > humor and I do impressions of things she hears about or we see in
> > > > > > > movies while explaining a little on where I'm from, that I hide
> > at all
> > > > > > > other times behind stoicism. Not to betray the strong and quiet,
> > > > > > > that's in there, he just feels like laughing sometimes. They
> > don't put
> > > > > > > the real funny stuff on tv, it's really weak compared to reality
> > and
> > > > > > > Chris Rock is tame relying on racial shock (I consider him a
> > > > > > > half-funny ass, but I like the movie Shrek). Like what a girl
> > shouts
> > > > > > > across the auditorium holding another's hair that drops everyone
> > > > > > > gasping for air in laughter dispatching with whatever lunch was
> > > > > > > midswallow, or another one cussing out a John who wanted credit
> > all
> > > > > > > the way down the block, a teacher flipping out on us. I felt bad
> > for
> > > > > > > the teachers, even if they were clueless. They were barking up
> > the
> > > > > > > wrong tree when interviewing certain troubled teens after
> > Columbine,
> > > > > > > people would've done better to pull their heads out of wherever.
> > All
> > > > > > > my friends are survivalist, I grew up around guns and black
> > markets,
> > > > > > > played the heck out of Doom, the Jolly Roger cookbook was toilet
> > > > > > > reading material but I enjoyed reading philosophy, and any
> > Popular
> > > > > > > Mechanics or science material I could find. In terms of
> > judgement it
> > > > > > > means nothing, but hearing people's thoughts is very rewarding,
> > > > > > > including yours. I lost my point somewhere. If I find it, I'm
> > sure it
> > > > > > > will be very relevant to the classes. :p
>
> > > > > > > Genetic inequality seems a faux pas but I think it has an
> > influence on
> > > > > > > developing skill and intelligence of sorts, and no doubt also in
> > how
> > > > > > > one meets the multitude of influences pushing the genes into
> > > > > > > activation and adaptation. IMO the distribution of trait-wise
> > acuity
> > > > > > > should be about even, with the exception of cognitive and
> > > > > > > psychological disorders. It seems certain emotional deficiencies
> > can
> > > > > > > under the right circumstances lead to successful outcomes
> > (financially
> > > > > > > that is), but under others lead to more apparent disaster.
> > Cultural
> > > > > > > values and myth come into play for sure in how that is levied.
> > I'd
> > > > > > > take an arrogant industrialist any day over a megalo-sociopath
> > bent on
> > > > > > > vengeance but that doesn't mean I'll be blind to the likelihood
> > of
> > > > > > > equally or more dangerous consequences because the former is
> > > > > > > enshrined. The brain seems highly adaptable too, and in evolving
> > > > > > > processes timing seems a crucial element as we meet the
> > challenge of
> > > > > > > the day with whatever limitations we might have. Something
> > good/bad
> > > > > > > can happen to anyone, something amazing can come from anywhere.
> > What I
> > > > > > > get from this is that statistically speaking we should seek to
> > improve
> > > > > > > the likelihood of good outcomes in how we solve problems and
> > formulate
> > > > > > > a way forward to include the likelihood that whatever
>
> ...
>
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>
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