Re: Mind's Eye trust

In terms of organising concepts like class rigs is a conservative and
I'm an old leftie. One would hope this is no reason for us not to
charitable to each other on a personal basis. And, of course, none of
us conforms to such groups entirely. In fact I expect everyone in
this group is concerned with the collapse of civic society in
Machiavelli's terms as outlined with a few quotes above.

On 8 June, 09:02, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You need to look into the activities of a lot of the rich..  there where
> some that were very good and honest  but many of them were no more than
> thieves that really did not like today give a damn about any one else other
> than themselves..    you like glossed over history..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 2:39 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I doubt if America could have been the success it has been without the
> > rich. Yes- there have been bad apples but who built the railroads, the
> > cities, the factories, the war supplies, the libraries, the private
> > universities, the medical industry, technology,etc? Money won the
> > Civil War and WWII. Even Christ knew what was up- render to Caesar and
> > render unto God.
>
> > On Jun 7, 9:11 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Not really Rigsy --   there is a lot of corruption and immorality
> > involved
> > > the rich for the most part are very self centered focusing mainly on
> > their
> > > interests and not those of humanity as a whole.  you can claim yo have
> > not
> > > done it  but you are riding on the shirt tails of those who have..  this
> > > action only encourages them...
>
> > > the excuse of being enabled by the government and laws does not really
> > hold
> > > water..  especially on the spiritual plane,,  sorry Rigsy  you have been
> > > alerted to the problem..   but do as you want
>
> > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:49 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > The rich are enabled by the government and laws.
>
> > > > On Jun 7, 12:18 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > We could probably find something like that in Mein Kampf too Molly.
> > > > > Andrew is on to something with the forgiveness angle.  We might have
> > > > > to do a lot of that when it dawns on us we've been had on a butty by
> > > > > the rich.
>
> > > > > On May 27, 1:04 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Just found this in my mailbox:
>
> > > > > > "As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live." -
> > Goethe
>
> > > > > > On May 26, 4:05 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > well Rigsy  they are lucky i do not tell others how to do it,,
> > > >  simply
> > > > > > > because it is easy enough  ,,,  so to be democratic I am
> > supposed to
> > > > > > > approve of the actions of the majority of those that are raping
> > and
> > > > > > > pillaging the government to line their pockets..  but I forget
> > you
> > > > love
> > > > > > > those ?good? guys..  defending their actions at every turn
>
> > > > > > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:30 PM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > You are not a very good example of a democratic society when
> > you
> > > > talk
> > > > > > > > like that Allan. No wonder it doesn't work. Found a fake bill
> > with
> > > > > > > > anti-FDR slogans when my father was in Hollywood so the rift
> > goes
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > and on, I guess. Actually, the types in Dante's Inferno are
> > with us
> > > > > > > > still- am down to the Florentine bankers.
>
> > > > > > > > On May 25, 1:51 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > what Gabby sent was right..  what is the thing with the
> > prisoner
> > > > of war
> > > > > > > > > camp the US insist on keeping   or at  least the republicans
> > > > insist on..
> > > > > > > > >  actually It would be fun to set up a house of horrors
> > > > especially built
> > > > > > > > >  for them..  bet in three days or less I could get them
> > willing
> > > >  to
> > > > > > > > resign
> > > > > > > > > form politics and give me all their personal money and family
> > > > fortunes..
> > > > > > > > >  The problem is I am not allowed to do harm  so sad sometimes
>
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 8:18 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Lovely Gabby.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I can't other than agree Molly.  I've held (as long as
> > Allan
> > > > has his
> > > > > > > > > > soul-god thingy) that there is far less individual about
> > the
> > > > human
> > > > > > > > > > that we think - Gabby mentions a bit of the German for
> > gossip
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > another thread and I doubt much human communication is much
> > > > more than
> > > > > > > > > > this and we struggle to realise how connected with
> > hierarchy
> > > > it is.
> > > > > > > > > > We find ourselves working with "individuals" when we need
> > to
> > > > work with
> > > > > > > > > > the network.  Continuing the Freudian theme, the best
> > > > individuals come
> > > > > > > > > > from the best societies and the best societies are made by
> > the
> > > > best
> > > > > > > > > > individuals.  Gabby's ain't it so not fits that too.  We
> > now
> > > > split the
> > > > > > > > > > electron into holon, spinon and orbiton but still struggle
> > to
> > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > multiple aspects of such as trust.
>
> > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 9:12 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, it ain't.
> > > > > > > > > > > communi Am 25.05.2013 07:20 schrieb "Allan H" <
> > > > allanh1...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > ain't that the truth
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Molly <
> > > > mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> Trust is all too often manipulated onto people who
> > don't
> > > > > > > > understand,
> > > > > > > > > > > >> and there are far too many.  then there are people who
> > > > > > > > understand, but
> > > > > > > > > > > >> allow, because they feel they are powerless do do
> > > > otherwise.  all
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > >> it gives us a picture of ourselves that we either
> > > > recognize or
> > > > > > > > look
> > > > > > > > > > > >> away from.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> On May 24, 4:35 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > I don't really want to imagine a Hollywood version
> > of
> > > > Gitmo
> > > > > > > > Gabby.
> > > > > > > > > >  By
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > the end we'd believe a truth machine turned all the
> > evil
> > > > > > > > terrorists
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > orange.  We've just had a terrorist moment in the
> > UK -
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > killing
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > a soldier in Woolwich (Drummer Rigby).  The idiots
> > who
> > > > did it
> > > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > well known activists.  There's a trust issue in even
> > > > this sort
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > stuff.  When you can't trust politics what are you
> > > > supposed to
> > > > > > > > do?
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > The Germans should have saved us a lot of bother by
> > > > protesting
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Nazis - a few did.  Democracy is supposed to give
> > voice
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > minority
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > opinion but rarely does.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Even on stuff like climate change we have big
> > > > problems.The
> > > > > > > > so-called
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > "deficit model" suggests that the public lacks
> > certain
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > if it were known properly (so closing the deficit)
> > > > would lead
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > favor certain policy actions. In other words, if
> > only
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > understood
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > the "facts" as I understand them, then you would
> > come
> > > > to share
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > policy preferences.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > The deficit model helps to explain why people argue
> > so
> > > > > > > > passionately
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > about "facts" in public debates over policies with
> > > > scientific
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > components. If you believe that acceptance of
> > certain
> > > > scientific
> > > > > > > > > > views
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > is a precondition for, or a causal factor in
> > > > determining what
> > > > > > > > policy
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > views people hold, then arguments over facts serve
> > as
> > > > political
> > > > > > > > > > debate
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > by proxy.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Dan Kahan, professor of psychology at Yale Law
> > School,
> > > > has
> > > > > > > > conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > several studies of public views on climate change
> > and
> > > > finds
> > > > > > > > that the
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > causal mechanisms of the "deficit model" actually
> > work
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > reverse:
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > people typically "form risk perceptions that are
> > > > congenial to
> > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > values." Our political views shape how we interpret
> > > > facts. On an
> > > > > > > > > > issue
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > as complex as climate, there are enough data and
> > > > > > > > interpretations to
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > offer support to almost any political agenda. Thus
> > we
> > > > have
> > > > > > > > arguments
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > over the degree or lack of consensus among
> > scientists,
> > > > and see
> > > > > > > > > > efforts
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > to delegitimise outlier positions in order to assert
> > > > one true
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > proper interpretation. Added to the mix is the
> > > > temptation to
> > > > > > > > push
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > "facts" beyond what science can support, which
> > offers
> > > > each side
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > opportunity for legitimate critique of the excesses
> > of
> > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > opponents. These dynamics can (and do) go on
> > forever.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > We obviously do much the same on such matters as
> > > > imperialism and
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > terrorism.  The killing in London was a breach of
> > trust
> > > > - but I
> > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > >> > show the same breach in which investments made by a
> > US
> > > > > > > > university
>
> ...
>
> read more »

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.