Consciousness as per your terms means 'soul' in man and Spirit in God. In the past I have noticed you using awareness in a similar manner. I being a foreigner can go only by the dictionary meaning. NONETHELESS consciousness would only be a religious word as it needs to be proved , what I see is a man who is aware or conscious of himself and the world and this is a attribute of a living organism and as for being blasphemous in today 's world , who cares?
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
I would agree with you, and reiterate my opinion: Consciousness is. It is infinite. ... my awareness of consciousness, whether mental, emotional, spiritual or physical, can (but does not always) limit my experience of consciousness. Our viewpoint, vantage point, or sum total of our awareness in any given moment (or in some cases, the moment eternal) creates our own unique experience of life."Now, there are reputable views throughout history that agree with this take and meaning of the terms, others assign the reverse. In the end, as you say Gabby, language is empty words imparted with agreed meaning (and Logos, but that is another topic). To converse with it, semantic is clarification needed.In my opinion, consciousness has no object. When people use the term "consciousness raising" I find they refer to making the effort to heighten their awareness of consciousness. Awareness can be subjective, as in self awareness, or of an object. Paradoxically, awareness of consciousness covers both. We are more or less aware given our mental, emotional, spiritual or physical acuity.
On Monday, September 16, 2013 7:16:00 AM UTC-4, Gabby wrote:Hm, is it solely a question of aesthetics whether "I am aware of you" or "I am conscious of you" is applied in a certain context? I doubt it. It even does have e blasphemous ring to my ear, if you said that this was true. In a standard narrative prose text I would therefore mark version two as wrong. What would your correct context for version two be?2013/9/15 Molly <moll...@gmail.com>It is for each of us to discover ourselves. I don't have to prove anything, RP. That's the beauty of it. Since you haven't yet defined your own terms, I will leave it to you.
On Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:19:17 AM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:Freud's use of consciousness is quite simple. When he uses the term conscious he means that part of our memory and motives of which we are aware , and the ' unconscious ' is that of which we are not aware but what remains in the background and influences our behaviour --these he calls repressions. Again he has a third term 'subconscious' in which we recollect our memories after a little effort.But Molly you were talking about consciousness and awareness as different , I don't see the difference , maybe you are confused and lost in a labyrinth of philosophy where you are ascribing meanings to commonplace words. Consciousness is awareness and if you say not , you have to prove it.On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't quite understand your term either RP. I think Gabby's quote a pretty good example of how Freud applied his model of the workings of the conscious mind it interprets consciousness.Here is a Joseph Campbell take on it:"In one of the Upanishads it says, when the glow of a sunset holds you and you say 'Aha,' that is the recognition of the divinity. And when you say 'Aha' to an art object, that is a recognition of divinity. And what divinity is it? It is your divinity, which is the only divinity there is. We are all phenomenal manifestations of a divine will to live, and that will and the consciousness of life is one in all of us, and that is what artwork expresses."
Joseph Campbell, "Creativity," The Mythic Dimension, p.154
On Sunday, September 15, 2013 5:29:02 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:I have no Idea what God conscious is as I am not God.. yet I would think it is a total awareness of the totality of everything. simply because everything is created from his essence.. this is not unlike our own awareness of our own body.. just an abstract though..as for freud.. ( today there are excellent translators on line so.. ) So a translation followed by an opinion..
Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious "by Sigmund Freud"In adults, it seems generally valid condition for the fantastic creative desire, that it to conscious thought strange, that was a repressed desire, or at least that he could consciousness have unknown reinforcements. Without adoption of the unconscious in the sense set out above, I know the theory not to develop the dream and not to interpret the experience material of dream analysis. the influence of this unconscious wish to consciousness proper material of the dream-thoughts now is the dream. latter is thereby equally pulled down into the unconscious, more specifically, exposed to a treatment as at the level of unconscious thought processes and vorkömmlich for this stage is characteristic. We know the characters of the unconscious mind and its differences from the consciousness capable "preconscious" so far only from the results of just the "dream work". "I do believe the word 'Psychobabble' describes what he said.On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 2:27 AM, gabbydott <gabb...@gmail.com> wrote:Roughly speaking, the difference is the agreed upon difference within a historically evolved sociological entity as expressed and replicated in their language. These language barriers have never stopped me in assuming I understand the topic under discussion. Ahem. Ah well, I had myself affected by Molly's impuls and looked up how Freud had solved the consciousness/ awareness confusion. Here is a language excerpt from "Der Witz und seine Beziehung zum Unbewußten" by Sigmund Freud:"Beim Erwachsenen scheint es allgemeingültige Bedingung für den traumschaffenden Wunsch, daß er dem bewußten Denken fremd, also ein verdrängter Wunsch sei, oder doch, daß er dem Bewußtsein unbekannte Verstärkungen haben könne. Ohne Annahme des Unbewußten in dem oben dargelegten Sinne wüßte ich die Theorie des Traumes nicht weiter zu entwickeln und das Erfahrungsmaterial der Traumanalysen nicht zu deuten. Die Einwirkung dieses unbewußten Wunsches auf das bewußtseinskorrekte Material der Traumgedanken ergibt nun den Traum. Letzteres wird dabei gleichsam ins Unbewußte herabgezogen, genauer gesagt, einer Behandlung ausgesetzt, wie sie auf der Stufe der unbewußten Denkvorgänge vorkömmlich und für diese Stufe charakteristisch ist. Wir kennen die Charaktere des unbewußten Denkens und dessen Unterschiede vom bewußtseinsfähigen »vorbewußten« bisher nur aus den Ergebnissen eben der »Traumarbeit«. "He speaks of Bewußt-sein and the Un-bewußt-en. The pre- and suf-fixes make the difference here. He did not really differentiate between human- and god-consciousness. Speaking of really or reality, in German we are allowed to make a difference between Realität (reality) and Wirklichkeit (reality in effect). Quite useful sometimes.2013/9/15 RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
If consciousness is not awareness , what is it ? What is the difference between human consciousness and god-consciousness ?On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:51 AM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we are confusing consciousness with awareness in the conversation. Consciousness is. It is infinite. Some say that God is consciousness and we are the limited expression, like a passing thought. I don't know about that. But I do know that my awareness of consciousness, whether mental, emotional, spiritual or physical, can (but does not always) limit my experience of consciousness. Our viewpoint, vantage point, or sum total of our awareness in any given moment (or in some cases, the moment eternal) creates our own unique experience of life.When psychologists use the term conscious mind, unconscious mind, they are referring to a specific aspect of mind - what we are and are not aware of in our experience. When Freud hijacked the term, he knew that Hermetic philosophy used it quite differently. This subtle, yet significant semantic aspect of the conversation seems to be creating barriers to communication. Agreeing on the terms is important when delving this deep.
On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:29:10 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:Butt away pol - we'll never bottom this one. We are sort of conscious of the unconscious as we have a name for it and can be aware of such as unconscious desires at some point. The only good god is a dead one RP. Saves on the embarrassment of him not turning up when asked. I'm tempted to say a dead immortal is a bit like a Cretan saying all Cretans are liars, Gabby makes sense and other such ... though there are known counterexamples on the latter two.
On Friday, 13 September 2013 15:54:34 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:Is an unconscious God equal to a dead one? If that were so Life with order and intelligence wouldn't come out of it. We have become so used to thinking of oblivion as death that the possibility of the greatest power to exist in an unconscious state doesn't find acceptance in our belief-systems. Consciousness or awareness is a must for us , the finite individuals , but for the One who is infinite and the source of all , it would be limiting. Consciousness is limiting as it cannot be infinite and has boundaries , also it entails two , the creator and the creation , which is against logic at least to my mind.--To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
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