I re read what I wrote and found it good but poorly written,, I am not sure this is any better.
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What is proof for one person is not proof for another. Souls are part of the universe. Also that the entire universe and everything in it is made up of the essence of God. The difficulty in looking at the spiritual realm is over the centuries people looked at that concept from the wrong angles and think their ideas are right.. From what I see the separation idea is totally wrong and I know for me the separation of God and his universe as a non starter.. the problem is that concept of separation of God from the universe is one that is hammered home though all major religions including eastern beliefs. Because it has been taught for so long does not make it the correct concept. Just an idea that is extremely difficult to change. Mostly because of that whispering ghostly voice that is claiming to be spiritual wisdom and fact..
To tie the Creator (God) and his creation is a concept that is very difficult to get one's mind around.. to be part of a greater whole and still separate.. the idea in reality is not something that difficult. If we set up the premise that the entire universe (+) is God, then we face the problem that we are not God. This is very true, but we are part of God's essence. then we face the dilemma of how can we be part of something and not be that thing? There is a visual reference for us to examine as we examine the idea of God being one with his universe we look at any object in our solar system and examining the point that it is totally separate from the solar system and is capable of existing on its own. It is an independent part of the solar system and at the same time part of the entire universe.. separate yet part of ..
This is an attempt to explain the spiritual realm and keep it in a realm we can visualize and understand. The idea is challenging to say the least..
If you want a God that is separate from his creation sorry I can not help you there, the idea is not something I can visualize
fellow traveler Allan
Matrix ** th3 beginning light -- Do No Harm
Andrew what is proof for one person is not proof for another. Souls are part of the universe. the difficulty in looking at the spiritual realm is over the centuries people look at thing from the wrong angles and think they are right.. What I see can be totally wrong.. and I know the separation of God and his universe as a non reality.. the problem is that is the one that is hammered home though all major religion including eastern,,
To tie the Creator (God) and his creation is a concept that is very difficult to get one's mind around.. to be part of a greater whole and still separate.. it really is not something that difficult.. if we set up the premise that the entire universe (+) is God ,, a visual reference now look at a planet in our solar system any planet examine the point that it is part of the solar system and at the same time part of the entire universe.. separate yet part of ..
an attempt to explain the spiritual realm and keep it in a realm we can visualize and understand is challenging to say the least..
If you want a God that is separate from his creation sorry I can not help you there is is not something I can visualize
Matrix ** th3 beginning light -- Do No Harm
On Nov 7, 2013 9:49 PM, "andrew vecsey" <andrewvecsey@gmail.com> wrote:Allan, I am trying to present an argument for people who do not believe that there are spirits that look over us and who demand a proof that they exist. My argument is that coincidences that we experience personally are ways in which spirits communicate to us their existence. Coincidences are not chance events that happen 2 or more times, but 2 or more seperate and different chance events that coincide to give a personal coincidence. I gave some examples. Forming a living single cell needs a series of separate chance events to coincide. First you have to have the right size of a sun, then you have to have a planet the right distance from it and then you have to have the right atoms forming the right molecules that combine in a certain way and remain stable. Only then can life appear. Any one of these chance events by themselves are statistically possible within the time span that life could form, but we need all the chance events needed for life to coincide. When you calculate the probability of these separate chance events to coincide and you find that for them to do so needs more time than there is, then for me it is proof that these chance events have been influenced to take place. In my thinking, this presents a "proof" of spirits that are able to influence chance events. That is all. Do you see anything wrong with this argument? I am not talking to you personally. I am talking to everyone.--
I am not asking anyone to disprove the existence of anything. I am asking everyone to see and try to disprove the logic in my argument. My argument is the following: Personal coincidences (separate chance events that coincide, like in my examples) that need more time to happen than they take are "proof" of the existence of spirits who guide us and communicate with us as long as we listen and follow.
On Thursday, November 7, 2013 8:24:20 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:Spirits to God?? I personally have no problem with the reality or existence of God or spirits.. at least my personal view.
What you are saying to me is extremely confusing and with out direction.. it appears that you are going from and confused unproven position to where I am not sure of..
Are you trying to prove God exists to yourself?? The question I have is just how do you view God?
What are spirits to you or are they just a feeling you have..
An event happening 1, 2 or 3 times are easily is within the realm of chance..Why would I want to disprove the existence of God when I know he is real if for no other reason than I met him. Now that is not proof for you .. it is proof for me and all I have done is share a personal experience. Take it for what you feel it is worth..
Matrix ** th3 beginning light -- Do No Harm
On Nov 7, 2013 3:26 PM, "andrew vecsey" <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:--
Allen, I do not want to lead any one down any road. All I wanted is to have feedback on my proposal that personal coincidences that have a probability so small that you need more time than what you have in order for them to happen are clear "signals" to prove that spirits exist and are able to communicate and guide us (if e listen and follow). The examples I give is life at its most basic level (a single cell) that took 10 billion years, and 3 of my own coincidences that took from a few years to a few hours. I use statistics for this. The probability of event 1 PLUS the probability of event 2 PLUS the probability of event 3 from all happening coincidentally (ie to the same person) is EQUAL to the probability of event 1 happening TIMES the probability of event 2 happenning TIMES the probability of event 3 happening). If this coincidence of the 3 events happening HAPPENS in less time then what statistics claims it needs, then I propose it is a clear proof that SPIRITS are involve. Then I go from SPIRITS (whatever you understand them to be) to GOD, whatever you understand that to mean. Actually what I want is people to do is to DISPROOVE that. Can coincidences (a series of events that are random but coincide) prove the existence of spirits?
On Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:51:37 AM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:..........I think Konara you will find Andrew wants to lead us down the mythical yellow brick road. Being a road he has his plan well formed and it can not change or deviate.. but I will follow it anyway..
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