Re: Mind's Eye mistaken origins

I have a lot of time fro what Andrew and Pol say on this.  I don't approve of lying, though can see some circumstances when one must.  Development of virtue on an internal basis allows the dreadful state of what passes for politics and an increasingly corrupt academy and media.  I don't mean any attack on Allan's notion of soul here, or religious development that is genuinely universal, or philosophy in terms of 'unbewitching language'.  It's that point at with the likes of Blair and Bush lay claim to have made peace with god when they are concealing their dirty hands.  At times in the past truth was no concern, only who was speaking and I feel we are now stuck with an elite doing exactly this.  We have whole disciplines like economics and most business teaching that have no basis in truth or free enquiry.  I believe this is part of deep-rooted elitism that starts with the classics, tragedy and virtue ethics that is little more than rationalisation.  The free table was part of this, so even communism has root in slavery.  amongst other things this has left us with an education system focused on material most can't really get into.

Here I can say 'All British are liars.  I am British' sure that all this means concerns cracking a few grins.  In philosophy the second proposition is counterexample to the first.  Both cannot be true in a certain view of language logic, but we are aware of the ironic meaning.  I never took much to 'all swans are white, therefore there are no black swans'.  There turned out to be some in Australia, but in more modern language the clue is they have black pigmentation round the eyes and could genetically manipulate that in the main body feathers.  There is a long history from Socrates' doxa, through Bacon's Idols, Descartes' radical doubt, Nietzsche's more radical doubt, Wittgenstein's biological-iconic view of language to more recent work (Dan Sperber) that we have argument wrong.  I want to doubt without leaving us in an anything goes morality or relying on heroes of argument like politicians taking us into wars we don't want.

On Saturday, 14 December 2013 20:55:22 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:

I ended up putting a lot of time into philosophy. In starting it was not by choice and did not expect my life to become an obsession.

I have been very blessed with people who have the ability to sift through the dross and then share their precious gems with me.

Thank You you are a treasure.

Matrix : Soul controls mind.
 (            : Do No Harm
[_D Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwt...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 7:24 PM
Subject: Mind's Eye mistaken origins

I sunk a lot of costs in philosophy.  The stuff was around at university and research was supposed to require epistemology.  Some of the experience was enjoyable.  It didn't shake convictions I learned in science or as a detective.  Roughly put there is evidence and the rest is piss and wind.  Evidence relies on audiences capable of understanding and these are rare. I even bought a book called 'Audiences' to learn more, but like most academic books and papers, it disappointed.  You have to read an awful lot of dross to find the few gems.  Whilst doing this you can be suckered , even seduced by arguments that convince that you are on a righteous path to truth.  The Greeks, probably copying and developing more eastern work, pondered a lot on virtue ethics, living in a slave economy and seemingly unaware the edifice built was ideal for cheats who could feign integrity; a system ideal for jerks living off the labour of others and worse.

It's tough being honest, even to the extent one of the biggest lies we are told is that honesty is the best policy.  Most systems I've experienced are designed to prevent honesty.  We use manners, etiquette and due process instead.  Evidence is replaced by human recall of what it was.  We have chronic problems because of this.  Most of us are lousy eye-witnesses.  I want to argue we are trapped in Greek origins, the mentality of an elite who routinely allowed and justified slavery.

Anyone any ideas?

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