Re: Mind's Eye Re: 100 years of learning nothing as a society?

Living without debt has certainly become a relief for me, but here in the US, the notion of credit is rammed down our throats at an early age.  College kids are send credit cards without applying, and add that to easy student loans, we have kids coming out of university with six digit debt, having gotten the message from many sources that it is all quite normal. Add to that a hefty mortgage when it comes time to settle down and a couple of car loans and you have debt slaves for life, the American dream.  I am not sure many think clearly enough about money to see it as a useful tool that can gain efficiency with proper use. People hardly even touch money anymore, banking on line with software that crunches the data for you in ways that never shows you how to apply interest over the long term and the real bwankers share.

The system may be beatable to certain degrees, and with small groups willing to go through the exercise, but will an entire country or global region ever really change it? Once folks were convinced to invest in stock and bond markets that issue combination bundles where junk can be dumped at the investors expense, keeping personal gains flat over time, pensions and retirement savings were laid at the feet of the king once again. Super rich find their way around with hidden assets and banks that don't report, and event that takes effort as movement is necessary when those systems collapse. Once you are in league with the money changers, it is a race to stay ahead of the game.

I would much rather sit in my back yard and watch my Linden tree.

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 3:25:34 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

You can complain all you want about the banking system you want. Just did some quick rough calculations.

The system is very beatable. If you really want to and could be easily done within the present banking system. Even more so within the US. It would require 50 family units each unit would be responsible for its share of the debt.
In a quick glance and an extremely rough calculation. I saw a 80 unit apartment complex for sale for $2,500,000.  Each family unit would rent 1 unit to live and pay $600 per month 300 twice a month if you want to pay it off quicker. (has to do with how interest is calculated and payment on the principal)  that amount would pay off the loan in ten years, + you would have 20 + units bring in an additional $12,000 per month extra to take care of maintenance, taxes, the left over used to reduce the principal of the loan.

Create it under a religious ogr. (Political tax benifits)  crazy as it sounds it is very possible. In 10 years of doing nothing more than paying your "RENT" you reach as a community financial indepence where the money you earn remains in your pocket.
In other words the political system is very usable it is a matter of perspective and orginization.


(  Quantum Spirituality
  )  soul governs body
[_D  do no harm

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 May 2014 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: 100 years of learning nothing as a society?

100+ to all that Molly.  Money was already considered a convention by Aristotle and at least 100 years ago there was a lot of debate on letting banks issue most of it as credit (97% now).  Most people still find this rather a shock, believing governments mint-print the stuff.  I'm struck that the Greeks had virtue ethics and di nothing about slavery.  That we have long known money is manipulated (BoE Governor in the 20s describing it as pretty evil in rather religious terms in 1922) by interest groups, and let this get worse as pretty much the same sabre-rattling that now comes via 'positive money' and 'modern monetary theory'.  This and a lot more convinces me real change is about something more spiritual and to think economics-politics not just ridiculous but a false form of religious control fraud.  I can see collective answers to the current plight, though the organisational effort is massive. 

On Friday, 23 May 2014 23:26:09 UTC+1, Molly wrote:

I find most of economics and politics ridiculous.  I do know some economists, politicians, historians etc., and feel genuine love for them as people, having found a way to work within the system to carve lives for themselves based on integrity, even though their chosen fields  may not have it primarily.  To me, money is mostly an abstraction, although I have taken most of my savings out of the market and big banks. I need to work, not to get through today or tomorrow, but a whole bunch of tomorrows would need financing depending on how long I end up living.  If I knew the end to be soon, I would start the party now!

On Friday, May 23, 2014 11:17:12 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

Chaucer somehow never quite translates.  (Dr) Shipman became our worst serial killer, almost seems one.  I was reading a Hitler biography last week and a I share some of his characteristics of the presentation of him as a shirker and outsider.  The Nazis put forward policies most of us would agree, stripped of the vile and war-lust.  Brill recall getting right to my mood Gabby.  UKIP campaigned on no policies at all and have taken 17% of our town hall vote.  One expects they will take the EU vote at more than double this when we are allowed to see the results on Monday.  One wonders if me, you and Allan could have gone round quoting Chaucer as the 'Utterly None of the Above Party'.  There are some rather nice restaurants in Brussels.  Maxwell is much cuter than Adolf's mutt and we could leave PR and policy to him.  Countering Farrage's direct appeal in pulling pints of real ale in celebration would be tough, but at least speaking Chaucer would convince the public we had actually drunk plenty of the stuff from his policy barrel.

I have long fancied ridicule as an approach to economics and politics - all our satirical shows do this.  The issue seems to be, 'fine, but how do we get on with allowing people to live as Molly suggests'?  The peculiarity seems to be that we have answers and that current politics and economics prevent us bringing them into being.  Goethe's Faust (part two if I remember) had money being based on gold and silver as yet unmined - and Britain looks like doing a material version of this by fracking oil and gas.  

On Thursday, 22 May 2014 09:00:12 UTC+1, Gabby wrote:

SS? Adolf Hitler's Schutzstaffel? His  dear dog was called Blondie, if I got your question right.

Am 22.05.2014 08:53 schrieb <allanh1946@gmail.com>:

As I read what Nil, Gabby & Molly say it rings so true. Latelyin typing SS seems to keep popping up involuntarily. Maybe it is a hidden premonition trying to surface. Society in many ways SS has not changed.the internet has altered how things are seen and viewed. The problems of corruption greed and power are there. Change is not going to happen mainly because they are afraid of change. zombies following their masters with the Warmers not wanting change.
Change can occur but it will have to be within wall groups using the system. Say small governments with in the existing system layers. I am sure it can be done but the question is who is willing to do it?

(  Quantum Spirituality
  )   ~  Soul controls Body
[_D ~~ Allan H

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 22 May 2014 2:41 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: 100 years of learning nothing as a society?

Oh yea, no one to vote for here either.  The theater of the absurd becomes more poignant and worthless.  Yet, life goes on.  People love, live, die, engage, languish, discover, ignore, breathe.  Value seems a matter of perspective.  We discuss not voting, but I always seem to make it to the poles.  Around here, much depends voting the ad guys out of office. Since a Detroit mayor received the longest sentence (28 years) for corruption not long ago, more of corrupt politicians are being indicted and seemingly honest ones coming in.  Above it all, corporate interests rule over individual liberties. The bwankers continue to swindle the middle class of their net worth and the feds do nothing. the game is rigged, and I suspect it always has been.

On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:45:21 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

I came across a manuscript of Marx (Gutenberg Project) the other day.  It's a bit windy, but not a bad description of the forces in play in Ukraine and elsewhere today  He does a bit of an analysis on how the Royal Navy has been used to support Russia to benefit only a tiny number of rich traders against the general commercial interests of the country.  It also contains this general statement that could almost be about today:

"The oligarchy which, after the "glorious revolution," usurped wealth and power at the cost of the mass of the British people, was, of course, forced to look out for allies, not only abroad, but also at home. The latter they found in what the French would call la haute bourgeoisie, as represented by the Bank of England, the money-lenders, State creditors, East India and other trading corporations, the great manufacturers, etc. How tenderly they managed the material interests of that class may be learned from the whole of their domestic legislation—Bank Acts, Protectionist enactments, Poor Regulations, etc. As to their foreign policy, they wanted to give it the appearance at least of being altogether regulated by the mercantile interest, an appearance the more easily to be produced, as the exclusive interest of one or the other small fraction of that class would, of course, be always identified with this or that Ministerial measure. The interested fraction then raised the commerce and navigation cry, which the nation stupidly re-echoed."

I find it very depressing that our main stream media struggle to present us with any worthwhile analysis.  In the UK I have no one to vote for and wouldn't want the kind of people on offer as friends or colleagues.  We have UKIP, a bunch of buffoons in rather loud clothing, about to sweep the EU elections.  There seems no point at all in having learned anything.  Anyone else finding this?

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