Re: Mind's Eye Re: 100 years of learning nothing as a society?

There is a rumour that linden trees smell like 'semen in the spring'.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4p0uw42cdo

I am hoping to do my bit in an environmental project over the next couple of years - in an attempt to 're-orchard' England.  Current talk on positive money - http://www.positivemoney.org/ - is to the effect we could take democratic control of the stuff.  

On Sunday, 25 May 2014 13:22:43 UTC+1, Gabby wrote:

Oh, you call it linden tree, like we do here! I can't smell them yet, but I'll keep you informed.

I would rather sum up what you describe: grassroots movement needs sunshine as well.

Am Sonntag, 25. Mai 2014 schrieb Molly :

Living without debt has certainly become a relief for me, but here in the US, the notion of credit is rammed down our throats at an early age.  College kids are send credit cards without applying, and add that to easy student loans, we have kids coming out of university with six digit debt, having gotten the message from many sources that it is all quite normal. Add to that a hefty mortgage when it comes time to settle down and a couple of car loans and you have debt slaves for life, the American dream.  I am not sure many think clearly enough about money to see it as a useful tool that can gain efficiency with proper use. People hardly even touch money anymore, banking on line with software that crunches the data for you in ways that never shows you how to apply interest over the long term and the real bwankers share.

The system may be beatable to certain degrees, and with small groups willing to go through the exercise, but will an entire country or global region ever really change it? Once folks were convinced to invest in stock and bond markets that issue combination bundles where junk can be dumped at the investors expense, keeping personal gains flat over time, pensions and retirement savings were laid at the feet of the king once again. Super rich find their way around with hidden assets and banks that don't report, and event that takes effort as movement is necessary when those systems collapse. Once you are in league with the money changers, it is a race to stay ahead of the game.

I would much rather sit in my back yard and watch my Linden tree.

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 3:25:34 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

You can complain all you want about the banking system you want. Just did some quick rough calculations.

The system is very beatable. If you really want to and could be easily done within the present banking system. Even more so within the US. It would require 50 family units each unit would be responsible for its share of the debt.
In a quick glance and an extremely rough calculation. I saw a 80 unit apartment complex for sale for $2,500,000.  Each family unit would rent 1 unit to live and pay $600 per month 300 twice a month if you want to pay it off quicker. (has to do with how interest is calculated and payment on the principal)  that amount would pay off the loan in ten years, + you would have 20 + units bring in an additional $12,000 per month extra to take care of maintenance, taxes, the left over used to reduce the principal of the loan.

Create it under a religious ogr. (Political tax benifits)  crazy as it sounds it is very possible. In 10 years of doing nothing more than paying your "RENT" you reach as a community financial indepence where the money you earn remains in your pocket.
In other words the political system is very usable it is a matter of perspective and orginization.


(  Quantum Spirituality
  )  soul governs body
[_D  do no harm

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 May 2014 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: 100 years of learning nothing as a society?

100+ to all that Molly.  Money was already considered a convention by Aristotle and at least 100 years ago there was a lot of debate on letting banks issue most of it as credit (97% now).  Most people still find this rather a shock, believing governments mint-print the stuff.  I'm struck that the Greeks had virtue ethics and di nothing about slavery.  That we have long known money is manipulated (BoE Governor in the 20s describing it as pretty evil in rather religious terms in 1922) by interest groups, and let this get worse as pretty much the same sabre-rattling that now comes via 'positive money' and 'modern monetary theory'.  This and a lot more convinces me real change is about something more spiritual and to think economics-politics not just ridiculous but a false form of religious control fraud.  I can see collective answers to the current plight, though the organisational effort is massive. 

On Friday, 23 May 2014 23:26:09 UTC+1, Molly wrote:

I find most of economics and politics ridiculous.  I do know some economists, politicians, historians etc., and feel genuine love for them as people, having found a way to work within the system to carve lives for themselves based on integrity, even though their chosen fields  may not have it primarily.  To me, money is mostly an abstraction, although I have taken most of my savings out of the market and big banks. I need to work, not to get through today or tomorrow, but a whole bunch of tomorrows would need financing depending on how long I end up living.  If I knew the end to be soon, I would start the party now!

On Friday, May 23, 2014 11:17:12 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

Chaucer somehow never quite translates.  (Dr) Shipman became our worst serial killer, almost seems one.  I was reading a Hitler biography last week and a I share some of his characteristics of the presentation of him as a shirker and outsider.  The Nazis put forward policies most of us would agree, stripped of the vile and war-lust.  Brill recall getting right to my mood Gabby.  UKIP campaigned on no policies at all and have taken 17% of our town hall vote.  One expects they will take the EU vote at more than double this when we are allowed to see the results on Monday.  One wonders if me, you and Allan could have gone round quoting Chaucer as the 'Utterly None of the Above Party'.  There are some rather nice restaurants in Brussels.  Maxwell is much cuter than Adolf's mutt and we could leave PR and policy to him.  Countering Farrage's direct appeal in pulling pints of real ale in celebration would be tough, but at least speaking Chaucer would convince the public we had actually drunk plenty of the stuff from his policy barrel.

I have long fancied ridicule as an approach to economics and politics - all our satirical shows do this.  The issue seems to be, 'fine

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