Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

Me a director. . I don't know how good I would be. My preference has always been in the trenches.
Chris' s expermental programis probably a good idea..there would need to be a lot of planning to be done.. that objective might be good one for the ME collective community to take on, seeing where it leads.

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

Are you offering to be Director of Chris' experimental programme Allan?

On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 9:05:07 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:

Experimentation requires direction.

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com>
To: Minds-Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

*laughing* I don't know about "expert" as much as "willing to experiment". 

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:11 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:

So imagine us all as a jigsaw, each with a piece to contribute to the whole picture.  Mean not to share - though when you run games with undergrads, the sharing penny usually only drops after you tell them it was responsible for their failure in the exercise.  Smug solipsism rules.  Though what a jigsaw might do with a full picture sounds a bit limiting, jigsaws not having consciousness unless made from Allan's rock.

What, by the way, is the consciousness of a bunch of social spiders bringing down a bird for dinner?

Chemicals affect consciousness - Chris is the expert on human experimentation here - in animals this is affected by parasites and chemicals.  The rubber-masked aliens who rule this planet moved on from chemical control years ago and use the easier to deliver propaganda now.  This has side effects, which is why Allan is eating rock as he slides down the glacier

On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 2:46:37 AM UTC, archytas wrote:

When things are all perspective one wonders why we talk at all.  Let the baby grip the burning coal - it's all perspective.  We have no right to do that educational stuff.  Nagel did the stuff on the rock in 1974, but chose to ask us to imagine what it was to be a bat.  I understand his class threw themselves out of the nearest window and to go to a cave party.  It was a fourth floor lecture and none survived, owing to a miscalculation on the speed of evolution in providing wings on the way down.  I survived owing to perspective.  Say bat to me and I think cricket.

What would consciousness be if each perspectivalist was aware they would be taken from the hive and shot unless they couldn't convince the others of their view?

On Thursday, 29 January 2015 15:07:03 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:

lol  oh my gosh I in trouble..
Actually the roots of conciousness go way back RP ..  like most things it really is a matter of perspective.  My perspective of God as I understand him comes from my childhood and a series of psychotic episodes (none involving drugs) I chose to call spiritual experiences..
It is all a matter of perspective .. my personal understanding my perspective.

Consciousness has many levels most is best guess just what we precieve.. there are more questions than answers  maybe starting with just what is the consciousness of a rock..  take my Rock carried the weight a glacier as it dragged him down the mountain.. it shaped his character of strength as it wore him down to a mere 1.4 kgs  I can only imagine his mass when his journey began.
Just what is Rock's perspective on consciousness?

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

Allan , when you know so much about such things why don't you give a valid definition of the concept "Consciousness". And it was Chris who was calling it Mumbo Gumbo and not I. I think that I have given quite an honest definition of  such a subjective concept as definitions go. It is upto others to give a better meaning. If I have started the thread it doesn't mean that I alone have to satisfy the group.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:53 PM, <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

There are many many levels consciousness.  As rock who knows all about the long hard grind after carrying the weight of a glacier on his back. Now he passes his time quietly on my workbench.
Unfortunately the dictionary is the common starting point. From where you have to begin building. Chris is right..  your definion is simply not thought out or developed. Mumbo Gumbo does not cut it in an honest discussion. 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----

From: RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

Allan , it is consciousness. What you are seeing the dictionary for is something completely different.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:15 PM, <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

That is a very possible reality..  the problem is the evil genie making us think we have consciousness would mean the evil woild have to possess the attributes he is making is think we possess.
It us said more happened in the 1st second of creation than all the time has passed since.

Commonly in the belief system the overall consciousness is refered to as God (or some variation of the name). Due to free will given to all souls and beings the conciousness is ever expanding like the rest of the ùniverse demonstrates.. 

As for a common definition one needs to turn to a dictionary.
CONSCIENTIOUSNESS

noun (uncountable)
• The state or characteristic of being conscientious.

CONSCIENTIOUS

adjective
• Thorough, careful, or vigilant; implies a desire to do a task well.

 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

We may have no consciousness and an evil genie might be making us think we have.  I find inferred consciousness is easily removed by a heavy blow with a pick-axe handle.

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:10:05 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote:

Consciousness in others is inferred and not known or proved so it might be that even atoms of elements have consciousness. I cannot even prove that you have consciousness it is merely inferred that you have it.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:

Why do we have to be satisfied with your explanation when we haven't even determined what that means?

You began a thread called consciousness, and then won't even take the first steps to try to establish a common ground on the idea?

Let's start with the simple question: do you believe plants have consciousness?

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:18 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think you will get an answer to this in the near future and maybe not in your lifetime , and so we have to be satisfied with my explanation -- it is an attribute of life , a real one , and not jumbled up.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:

Moogle-de-poogledy is an attribute of life and needs no further description.

Do you see why that's not an effective line of conversation?

What is conciousness? Do plants have it? Does it require sentience?

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:10 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:

Consciousness is an attribute of life and needs no further description. Without consciousness there would have been no life , and so it is life itself.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:

Just so we're all on the same page, can you go ahead and define exactly what a consciousness is?

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:05 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:

Suppose there had been no consciousness and the entire world had been there but all unconscious , what would be the Truth? Just death , nothing else. Consciousness is what makes life , a proof that there is something which exists , Existence itself and not death. Look at the stars , the solar system , if it had self-direction where would we be? It all obeys laws and that is the reason for order in the universe and not chaos. What would humanity have been if we were not bound by our nature , no laws of biology , psychology , etc. , no predictability , no comfort that we would return to our homes at night ,no assurance that we would return home from work . Unpredictability is still there but it is minor , mostly there is satisfaction and assurance of well-being.

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