Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

News rooms  at their best  my vote is for 'Gossip' may be they should be renamed to the more appropriate Gossip Room!
Tnx fir the thought Neil.

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness

Thoughts in no way imply a thinker, yet  most of us believe consciousness is something the individual possesses.in a virtual system produced in the skull by the brain, yet we seem to be in a wider creation that may be conscious itself, perhaps of itself.  Here we are, tiny specks in a cosmos so big and running away from us -one wonders why we would be conscious of it.  Plants know pain and 'scream'.  Squeeze a rock and you find bacteria that translate energy directly into their systems.

One response to such uncertainty is to force a certainty on the area - a fairly typical religious reaction to bring comfort.  We have even had false consciousness without knowing what 'actual' consciousness might be.

All our thinking is hypothetical in some way.  Reality is a hypothesis.  For instance, do I see:

1. a real blue book

2. dream a blue book

3. hallucinate a blue book

4. see a blue book because an evil genie mediates reality so I do

I forget the rest of the list.  I go for realism, but even this has critical or structured components.  What I know influences what I can sense and experience as a conscious state.  Some squiggles in a computer read out from Hubble pointed at deep space may look like warp signatures leaving our universe to an even deeper dark attractor to me, given my knowledge of Relativity.  I've actually seen the 'data' and it's all squiggles to me really.  I'm relying on better informed explanation.

I can see elegance in RP here.  Playing cricket, I might admire the elegant cover drive and then rough him up like Chris above, with a few short-pitched 'chin music' deliveries.  Elegant theories have to withstand the short stuff of reality and rarely do.  In laboratories we refer to wanting RP's level of comfort from a theory as 'waiting for a blow job from God'.    

Some people seem to think newsrooms are based around "news".  In my head (consciousness) they are about manners, sex, ruthless removal of the disabled, fat and ugly, gossip and propaganda.  Disgust is my major feeling about newsrooms.  We do not all seem to think this.  Why would our consciousness be different?  

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 4:58:28 AM UTC, archytas wrote:

We may have no consciousness and an evil genie might be making us think we have.  I find inferred consciousness is easily removed by a heavy blow with a pick-axe handle.

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:10:05 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote:

Consciousness in others is inferred and not known or proved so it might be that even atoms of elements have consciousness. I cannot even prove that you have consciousness it is merely inferred that you have it.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:

Why do we have to be satisfied with your explanation when we haven't even determined what that means?

You began a thread called consciousness, and then won't even take the first steps to try to establish a common ground on the idea?

Let's start with the simple question: do you believe plants have consciousness?

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:18 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think you will get an answer to this in the near future and maybe not in your lifetime , and so we have to be satisfied with my explanation -- it is an attribute of life , a real one , and not jumbled up.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:

Moogle-de-poogledy is an attribute of life and needs no further description.

Do you see why that's not an effective line of conversation?

What is conciousness? Do plants have it? Does it require sentience?

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:10 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:

Consciousness is an attribute of life and needs no further description. Without consciousness there would have been no life , and so it is life itself.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecipice@gmail.com> wrote:

Just so we're all on the same page, can you go ahead and define exactly what a consciousness is?

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:05 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:

Suppose there had been no consciousness and the entire world had been there but all unconscious , what would be the Truth? Just death , nothing else. Consciousness is what makes life , a proof that there is something which exists , Existence itself and not death. Look at the stars , the solar system , if it had self-direction where would we be? It all obeys laws and that is the reason for order in the universe and not chaos. What would humanity have been if we were not bound by our nature , no laws of biology , psychology , etc. , no predictability , no comfort that we would return to our homes at night ,no assurance that we would return home from work . Unpredictability is still there but it is minor , mostly there is satisfaction and assurance of well-being.

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