Some time a smile with a good laugh does wonders.. But you have to watch out for those dutch tulip doctors especially when they drag you off using alien skull caps hard wiring me directly into the tulips and the flashy strobes that create the visual effect of a mid evil helmet varying using input intensity and a variety of other abnormal weird scans before allowing my beloved wife to rescued me..
In typical tulip arts fashion the doctor closely monitor my medication saying as little as possible. Other than saying there is significance weakness in the language section of my brain.. all things considered i am doing good.
Yes. There are a lot of modern meds out there i have standing tulip specialist appointments that are on going .. seems i am a pain in the tulip patch..thank you for the thoughts RP.. i am always open to new ideas.. but complete clarity eludes me with ... hmm let us leave the topic of my health.
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Presence
In typical tulip arts fashion the doctor closely monitor my medication saying as little as possible. Other than saying there is significance weakness in the language section of my brain.. all things considered i am doing good.
Yes. There are a lot of modern meds out there i have standing tulip specialist appointments that are on going .. seems i am a pain in the tulip patch..thank you for the thoughts RP.. i am always open to new ideas.. but complete clarity eludes me with ... hmm let us leave the topic of my health.
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Presence
You speak English like a Dutch tulip Allan. We don't listen but can still admire the beauty of it all ... spotting gobbledegook is a skill and it is very difficult to know whether we are listening to invisible cloth salesmen. Here's a wordy explanation of how our lack of words ...
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 6:06:32 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
-- "Alston thinks, because God is said to be a personal reality, and an experience of God's presence therefore cannot be brought about in some relatively mechanical way, simply by creating an appropriate set of sensory or other conditions. So given what we mean by "God," it is only to be expected that mystical perception will fail to yield a vocabulary that will allow us to specify at all precisely a correlative phenomenology. In other words, even if (perhaps especially if) mystical perception were veridical, we would not expect to have such a vocabulary. So the absence of the vocabulary cannot be thought to constitute an objection to the good epistemic standing of such experiences ... tradition has commonly differentiated three varieties of experience of God: those associated with the "prayer of quiet," the "prayer of union," and "rapture," in order of increasing intimacy of acquaintance with God. And each of these phases of the spiritual life, it has been said, is associated with its own distinctive phenomenology."
Of course, all this can be corrupted:
"Such an approach can admit of corruptions, as when the believer seeks out certain exalted experiences, and takes pride in them because of what they are thought to signify about intimacy with God, or perhaps takes pleasure in them simply because of their thrilling or in other ways pleasing phenomenological feel. David Pugmire speaks of "dramaturgical" and "narcissistic" cases of emotional experience where, respectively, the emotion is taken to signify one's superior status in some respect, or where it is valued because of its pleasant phenomenological feel. And we might think of some religious experiences in similar terms. However, these cases are presumably corruptions, and the tradition which has evolved the language of "spiritual sensations" need not as such have any tendency to value religious experience for these reasons".
No doubt all of us have seen the godswanker and devil dodger in action.
". .
Indeed, in so far as spiritual sensations are prized for these reasons — because of their phenomenological feel or as a way of underwriting one's sense of one's own importance — then they will be religiously defective (given the religious importance of the virtue of humility for example); and they are also likely to be epistemically defective, because of the suspicion that the believer, whether consciously or not, is engineering the production of such experiences for the advantages that they confer in these respects. It is in part for these reasons that there exists a very broadly based tradition of testing religious experiences by their fruits in practice. An experience which fails to issue in a livelier regard for the interests of one's neighbour, for example, is to that extent disconfirmed on religious grounds "
Indeed, in so far as spiritual sensations are prized for these reasons — because of their phenomenological feel or as a way of underwriting one's sense of one's own importance — then they will be religiously defective (given the religious importance of the virtue of humility for example); and they are also likely to be epistemically defective, because of the suspicion that the believer, whether consciously or not, is engineering the production of such experiences for the advantages that they confer in these respects. It is in part for these reasons that there exists a very broadly based tradition of testing religious experiences by their fruits in practice. An experience which fails to issue in a livelier regard for the interests of one's neighbour, for example, is to that extent disconfirmed on religious grounds "
The 1963 Peter Sellars' film 'Heavens Above' is worth a watch on how little we have learned in 50 years'
The wheels of much we might think we can argue have already been invented. Not knowing these arguments, our lack of erudition, is a problem - but one we know the skilled language do we just become scholastic, trapped too much in words or maybe anti-intellectualism?
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 6:06:32 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
(sigh) if only my english was so good..
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwterry@gmail.com>
To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: PresenceEquafinality is a word most have not heard, yet just means there may be many roads to the same outcome. Id, ego and super-ego are just terms from Freud and various origins in religion and literature (Attic tragedy, Goethe, Shakespeare). Some receive 'I think therefore I am' as 'clever', others mistrust the grounding, even of doubt, in this glib form of philosophy based on "presence". Like Allan, some have it that this wordy-merdey is just a form of dominating presence itself. Science can easily beat people up by asking them to integrate, differentiate, work out vectors, draw curves from data and even do and record some simple measurements. If Gabby and I met (and the bullets missed), we would have to speak in English for me to understand as my German is even more schoolboy than the rest of me. Unless blind, most of us could look down a microscope and see Brownian motion (bits from pollen grains buffeted by molecules), but most of us lack the language to understand this (one does not see the molecules or the physics of a potential pathway to the stars).--Tony's tent is not a bad example of a tensor system (Einstein - but the ideas come from how bridges stay up), though guy-ropes need some slack as I remember."With respect to many, if not most issues, there exist significant differences of opinion among individuals who seem to be equally knowledgeable and sincere. Individuals who apparently have access to the same information and are equally interested in the truth affirm incompatible perspectives on, for instance, significant social, political, and economic issues. Such diversity of opinion, though, is nowhere more evident than in the area of religious thought. On almost every religious issue, honest, knowledgeable people hold significantly diverse, often incompatible beliefs.""Alston suggests that our inability to describe the elements of religious-mystical experiences from a phenomenological point of view does not imply that they lack a distinctive phenomenology, or that they fail to be directed at some mind-independent reality, in rather the way that sense experiences are. We lack a relevant vocabulary, he argues, because we cannot construct any simple correlation between a range of "stimulus conditions" for mystical perception and the kinds of experience which are likely to arise under those conditions. And therefore we cannot refine a vocabulary for the description of mystical experience by replication of relevant conditions and renewed attention to the phenomenology of the experiences that occur under those conditions. By contrast, there is no difficulty in general in specifying the phenomenology of an experience of, say, turning one's face into a breeze, because it is easy to recreate the stimulus conditions for such an experience, and we can therefore attend repeatedly to the character of the experience. And since others can also do this, we can establish a public language for the description of such experiences."It all gets wordy-merdey pretty quickly and many are not good with words or other forms of representation. Sue is just back from work and my heart skipped a beat (not really of course) and yesterday Max swam the river to get to a family of deer on the other side. I thought I might have to rush across to save the deer from harassment, but the lad just looked, seemed to chat and came back. A snake told me he wasn't a serpent (well, he actually told me that with different HOX genes he would have fingers to make the appropriate gesture to artists for there aeons of misrepresentation). It is true snakes could grow legs if we could manipulate their HOX genes. The rest is not something we should be silent on. I can explain the HOX set-up in detail. The mystic is more difficult. In fact, the detail of presence, is overwhelming.
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:24 PM UTC, RP Singh wrote:Allan, O.K. it is just a discussion, but tell me how I am threatening or controlling." the problem develops in the threatening and controlling manner that is implied.. "On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 2:27 PM, <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:Good morning world,, omnipresence if I didn't know better I would think it was RP type word.. I has the same type of d&d.
One I think that is one of those teachings though in reality it is actually true,, the problem develops in the threatening and controlling manner that is implied..
To me it seems many theologians are all about mudding the issue be insisting they have the only true and accurate understanding of what is said. Very closed minded in how ideas are viewed. There seems to be a need to have an attitude of my God is greater than your God.
I think what I am always searching for is how to have a closer harmonious interaction with the presence as I understand him. The I Ching is one resource I use when I need to make am important decision. I like reading the I Ching ( tossing the coins ) creates a randomness in thought. Oddly I never
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others-----Original Message-----
From: gabbydott <gabbydott@gmail.com>
To: "minds-eye@googlegroups.com" <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: PresenceOkay, let me try once more. Apart from the presence there is the superego and the baser drives that in one way or another serve the presence. The One is the frame within all this is bound to happen. Better now?
Am Mittwoch, 25. Februar 2015 schrieb RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>:--Nope, the presence is the better you and the worse you, the superego is developed through the stages of your life whereas the worse you , the id , are your baser drives which continuously challenge you and corrupting your reason as well. The One is the source behind the universe which inexorably binds everyone so subtly that it is hard to understand.--On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Gabby <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:It is the "presence of the better of you" that had Neil remind you of the "presence of the worse" also. Only when both sides are integrated, he would allow for "true". I conclude the true presence can be situated in the past, present, future and would match your definition of the One. Right?
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