Cultural values cannot be imposed on a society, women sexuality has to be accepted by the society concerned, it cannot be forced on a people. Choosing your partner is possible only when there are opportunities available in a society, the best that is being done is to take the approval of the boy and the girl for their marriage. You can't just marry anyone who is working with you or someone you know. Boys and girls are not satisfied with such limited choice they go in for arranged marriage in which the families concerned search for matches through newspaper and internet, and it is by consent of the boy and girl that marriages are fixed. Yes, people also marry for love, but only a few and such marriages are not necessarily successful. Such is our society, and it will change only with time and you cannot force it to change. Any movement can only come from within the society, and it is the work of leaders and social reformers.
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 AM, frantheman <francis.hunt@gmail.com> wrote:
If I'm understanding you correctly, RP, one of your major arguments is that it's not fair to single out India on this issue because other countries are just as bad.This is not a good way to make an argument. It's basically just a version of the situation where a kid is called out for misbehaviour and he/she answers by pointing at another kid and saying, "he did it too, she did something even worse!" It doesn't address the real question.The real question here is a cultural attitude towards women which seems to be fairly widespread in certain sections of Indian society and the influence this may have had on the Indian authorities re. banning the documentary. In an open society - which India is - it is legitimate to discuss this issue; in a globalised open society, it is perfectly valid for people outside India to also become involved in this discussion. I certainly would not claim that India is a "backward country"; it is the world's largest democracy, a wonderful example of how a post-colonial society can organise itself multi-ethnically, multi-lingually, multi-culturally, multi-religiously, despite huge problems of inequality, poverty, and many potential sources of serious conflict, in a democratic and open manner. Chaotically, often imperfectly ... but it works! And that's something the whole world can only look at in awe and admiration.But this does not mean that India is perfect, or beyond criticism. And the attitude to women is an Indian problem. I agree it's also a problem in other countries and societies - but that's a matter for another discussion. And as long as India remains an open society - something I expect it to do - this current discussion on attitudes to women, provoked by the horrific rape and the documentary, is only the beginning. This discussion will go on, and move in directions which may prove even more uncomfortable for those holding traditional conservative attitudes. Once the theme of equality and rights in gender issues comes into the arena of public discussion, other questions which are implicit in it will arrive on the agenda sooner or later. What about the issue of parents deciding who their children should marry, for example? India has a growing, well-educated, questioning, young population, networked with the whole world, half of them women. They will ask questions, compare, and ultimately demand. In an open society, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Am Freitag, 6. März 2015 00:07:25 UTC+1 schrieb RP Singh:If you had read the post to which I had answered You would have known what I meant. The issue was that India is a backward country and are prejudiced against women, I am just pointing out that such a progressive country like america does not treat its women as equal to men, they don't give equal salary or benefits to women. So please stop harping about India and talk about inequality in the world, discrimination in the world, exploitation of women in the world. Make it a global issue and not an issue about India.On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:03 PM, 'facilitator' via "Minds Eye" <mind...@googlegroups.com> wrote:What the hell does the US having a woman president have to do with rape? We haven't had an oriental president either. Hell, we haven't even had a black president yet.
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 10:03:56 AM UTC-5, RP Singh wrote:There has been rampant dowry harassment of many young brides by the in-laws, but the greatest harassment has mostly been done by the mother-in-law. Women are actually the women's greatest enemies. America has 50% women population and in their long history they are yet to have a woman president. Are women actually sleeping or maybe somewhere they think that men would make better leaders.On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:A very sad case indeed, Pol. There is much there to invoke outrage. And RP's crack about women being the worst enemy for women has the tone of these rapists flinging insults about the victim. But I cannot say I agree that the film looks to be someone preying on the victim to get their own 5 minutes of fame. Looks as if the film makers took a tough stand to try to bring attention to the problem. And the problem looks to be, at least in part, that blaming the victim is so accepted in all parts of culture that we don't even recognize it when we see it, or sometimes say it. I can feel deep compassion for the mother when she says that she can't be hurt worse by their words after her daughter died in her arms after their violent actions. How do we bring attention to the atrocity of cultural acceptance of not only this kind of violence but the gender inequity that perpetuates it?
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 8:59:06 AM UTC-5, pol.science kid wrote:http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/i-wish-judiciary-govt-did-more-than-just-ban-a-film/
On Mar 5, 2015 4:44 PM, "RP Singh" <123...@gmail.com> wrote:That documentary has been banned and I don't read banned stuff because it is mostly prejudiced and sensational. The maker is simply creating a storm to make money. When that incident happened everyone was shocked, and by raising that subject again by talking to a perpetrator of the crime what did the producer want? If he was really concerned he should have talked to people on the road and not a savage who had no concern for others but only blaming the victim. Everyone needs protection, I as well. It is society through the government that provides protection against criminals and scoundrels. There are other type of savages who loot all your money and put you on the road, there are savages in uniform who implicate you in criminal cases, everyone needs protection and you are not unique in that. You can make India a better place to live in, just why don't you try to do that?On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:19 PM, polly skid <r.fre...@gmail.com> wrote:Don't use animals and rapists synonymously. What is your point when you say women in other places are vulnerable? Its quite obvious.. We all live in this world and are aware of what happens in other places too.. The point of reference is the documentary and Delhi. Maybe extending it to other parts of India. Nobody ever said only Indian men rape. I don't know who you are defending 'india' against... When you say 'you are not unique 'in demanding protection.. Are you talking to me(when did i demand protection;when i said delhi is unsafe??) , or do you mean all womankind when you say 'you are not unique in demanding protection'? As far as i gather Udwin is saying through the documentary that most men in india are not raised to respect women as equals and that's a contributing factor in increased rapes, hardly about controlling some random 'savages' out to get women and children. Maybe you should actually watch the documentary. Might help bring some perspective.
On Mar 5, 2015 4:03 PM, "RP Singh" <123...@gmail.com> wrote:Such instances happen everywhere in the world. There are streets in New York where you cannot move about. Girls are, and yes even children are forcefully put into prostitution and are drugged and made to do things which go against civilization. Are they being done by Indians only? Everyone needs protection from the animals and savages among us, and you are not unique in that. Western countries might be better in some sense, but we are in others. If you are talking about Delhi, you are doing so as if it was crawling with monsters, but there are monsters everywhere. In developed countries they have better systems of control, and as we progress we will learn to control the animals here as well.I have just read Archytas and he has given a good explanation.On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:14 PM, polly skid <r.fre...@gmail.com> wrote:Leave Delhi.. Remember the UP village case where two teenage sisters were raped and hanged from a tree? Already forgotten by most people.
On Mar 5, 2015 3:12 PM, "polly skid" <r.fre...@gmail.com> wrote:Why should i need protection if i wear western attire..?and by that logic wearing 'indian attire' doesnt call for 'protection'..if you wear it ? Comparing India with Taliban aint a very great idea. We are moving forward(in time) because thats what people do/countries do.. Plus who is criticizing 'india' dude...?? I dont get the point of getting masses and democracy. It's a fact that if youre a woman in Delhi youre quite unsafe. One cant even call any cab or board any bus.. The problems of course go much further than anything that is written here. Arguing about the 'greatness' of india's heritage, democracy , culture doesnt do shit....
On Mar 5, 2015 2:35 PM, "RP Singh" <123...@gmail.com> wrote:If you are wearing western attire and moving about the streets of Delhi who protects you, it is the people of India. India is a democracy and the government can function only if they are chosen by the people. Whatever politicians might be they know that they are answerable to the people and are ruling with peoples' mandate. Day by day we are moving forward, are we doing so by subjugating the masses? Our former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi tried to play the despot and lost the next election, she learned the lesson and corrected herself. Polly Taliban does not exist here , some people are trying to do that in the name of culture and are unsuccessful. Do the majority in India want fundamentalism, surely not!On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:12 PM, polly skid <r.fre...@gmail.com> wrote:Sorry.. I don't mean the word tolerant.. what are 'they' supposed to be 'tolerant' of anyways.. That females exist and move about by will?? ...
On Mar 5, 2015 12:52 PM, "polly skid" <r.fre...@gmail.com> wrote:Hate to say this RP.. But majority of people are NOT tolerant... An hour into the streets of most areas of Delhi or even most parts of north india would make it clear... Maybe you stay in better parts...
On Mar 5, 2015 11:41 AM, "'facilitator' via "Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com> wrote:That's encouraging RP.--
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 12:30:56 AM UTC-5, RP Singh wrote:It is not the majority view, but that of deranged, uneducated and fundamentalists. Such people are always doing something evil in the name of culture, what do such people know of culture. We have a rich heritage of giving respect to women if we look in not so ancient India, when muslim raiders came from the west and stole women a little purdah system developed as a defence, and in the course of time evils in society also developed, but by the good works done by social reformers from amongst us much of our evil treatment of our women was abolished. It is in the nature of humans to rationalize their venomous intentions by putting the blame on the victim. The majority of our people are not like that, they are tolerant and free and that is the reason that we are progressing greatly.On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 12:58 AM, archytas <nwt...@gmail.com> wrote:China?--
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 7:13:51 PM UTC, facilitator wrote:Article:"Blaming women for rape is what hundreds of millions of men here are taught to believe.And the code for women in this country is simple: Dress modestly, don't go out at night, don't go to bars and clubs, don't go out alone. If you break the code, you will be blamed for the consequences.When one of the four men sentenced to death for the high-profile gang rape of the woman in 2012 was quoted in a new documentary as saying "a girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy," he was repeating something community and religious leaders in this nation of 1.2 billion routinely say.
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