Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

again we disagree  RP you are getting in to synonyms but word have different but similar meaning.
i am getting tired and need to pause for awhile.
Allan


do not murder, rape or enslave others

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajendra Pal Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

A child has faith that what his teachers are teaching is truth, when the priest delivers a sermon they believe it to be true. When islamic suicide bombers go in a crowded place an blow themselves they believe that they will go to jannat because they have been told so since childhood.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 4:33 PM Allan <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

disagree RP little children do not have faith ..  what they do have id the strange ability to accect and believe..
strange as it sounds I once was one.. now I work very hard at keeping my child within both well and healthy.
my second most cherished possession.
Allan

do not murder, rape or enslave others

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajendra Pal Singh <1234rp@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <minds-eye@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 11:09 am
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Belief vs knowledge

First step in reasoning is that you have faith later on you prove or disprove it with time. Little children have faith and learn what they are taught. Later when they grow up they reason out things and often their beliefs change with time. 

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 2:20 PM leerevdouglas <leerevdouglas@gmail.com> wrote:

Morning all.

I can't post or respond to posts using the mobile website, so RP I will reply when I get home...

In the meantime....

How much do you know vs how much you believe?

Many of you here know me, some of us go back a decade or more, (hello to those new to me and I to them)@ I've been online for some 35 odd years or so and have much forum experience.  Which is all to say, this not my first ride.

I've been thinking for as long as I can remember. I know some stuff but believe much more stuff and disbelieve a great amount of stuff too.

I've been back and forth with atheists sooo many times that I think I know thier concerns with theism, well at least the anti thiest athiest.

It's about reason. They tell me that belief without evidence is unreasonable. And yes I suppose it is.  So they smile at me when I say this, and assume they've won...

But isn't that just a description of what belief is? Holding something to be true, that has not been shown to be so....

So I ask them, are you loved?

Yes I am, comes the reply.  But can you prove that?

Well of course, my partner shows me every day by their words and actions...

Nice, I say, I'm happy for you, love is powerful, being loved is great isn't it..

But can you show that your partner is not deciving you?

Well no you can't.  Because no matter how you try, you just cannot prove that what an other thinks is as they claim it.  So ultimately you must believe...

I'm a pragmatist, a realist, but also a thiest and here's the rub, a nilhist too boot.

Seems contradictory no? A pragmatic and nilhistic religious bloke.

It's not and I can readily explain how, but perhaps in another thread at another time. Here and now I'm speaking about belief and knowledge.

Objective reality exists. Can I prove that?

Nope.  Ultimately Decartes' cogito ergo sum, does not work for me. 

I think, therefore I am...

But I cannot conclusively show that the demon is not dreaming of me as A thinking being, any more than I can prove I'm not a brain in a jar or in any other way a simulated being....

I call Descartes' wondering the first belief.

I believe that I am real and live in a real universe, upon that foundational belief hangs all the other beliefs I hold and the very few objective facts I can claim as knowledge. 

What about you lot?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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