http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIpIKrh7Z8
On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 12:39 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry about the lapsed video link. They are around on the net. I
suspect the machine is banking and war and we suppose it something
other. I'm not sure we are free as rigsy says - rather just lucky to
be free of interesting times. I was thinking of Camus watching some
stuff on OccupyX -
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/ows-guest-post-denver-police-use-tear-gas-rubber-bullets-batons-and-pepper-spray-on-protesters.html
High in the list of my values is the treatment of others (which in a
sense is elitist) and I don't believe current economics provides
much. It seems to me many have forgotten that their freedoms were won
bu others,
On Oct 30, 11:55 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Even God cannot change the past." Agathon (448 B.C.-400 B.C.)
>
> We are eventually free to establish our own values and lifestyle- if
> we are lucky- and it sounds as if you are one of the lucky ones as we
> type on computers constructed via slave labor to communicate our
> opinions and struggles.
>
> Around the beginning of the 20th Century, manufacturers accepted the
> idea of making products that would soon be obsolete and need to be
> replaced rather than repaired which has resulted in a toss-away
> consumer society that is drenched in wastefulness. I think the idea
> was first promoted by advertisers who were eager for steady income.
> Replacement has become a broader fact- from mates to warfare.
>
> On Oct 29, 11:01 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I don't recall the exact quote from Camus, Neil, in his "Rebel"...
>
> > We are living in times when the same usurpers, oligarchs, power
> > brokers, Free Capitalists and State Capitalists... use values that
> > appeal to people, take positions that make people feel good, espouse
> > causes and show generosities... when all that is on their mind is how
> > to extract more from the people, how to make laws more capital,
> > priviledged and owner friendly ( yeah, the fkg Motor Act in India is
> > still of colonial vantage, when the motors on the roads were owned
> > mainly by the British... you don't need to commit any murders at all,
> > just mow them on the road, and escape with at most as light a sentence
> > as mere 2 years of simple imprisonment ! ), how to consolidate and
> > cartelise the supply chain or distribution structures for essential
> > commodities, so as to create scarcities and raise prices at will...
> > control power... control money... control legislation... control
> > supply and demand... control...
>
> > As a result, people have come to believe that the 80% of the economy
> > looped in to serve 20% of the population is alright, that millionaires
> > constituting 50% of People's Representatives is alright, that there is
> > something sacrosanct about property and shall-do-as-I-wish rights,
> > that accepting money means that people have to surrender their freedom
> > and needless dignity, that basketfuls of cake and food reject in waste
> > bin from wealthy mansions is okay when thousands are hungry... and if
> > you stand to question and protest over such gross social inequality,
> > such political misrepresentation, such blatant economic inequity...
> > you are actually shown the law, the law and order enforcement might,
> > the feudal norms and ethics, and told "look at the others, how they
> > are not about creating problems" !
>
> > You then have only one option... which you will soon be advised even
> > by your parents and well-wishers... to join them. After all, even you
> > have it all... if you study and work hard, with dedication... et al.
>
> > The fun starts, rather the mayhem, when you see no reason to join
> > them, to have all that "they" have. At that stage you have already
> > discovered the new paradigm for yourself. It happened with me in
> > 1997... when I looked up to my boss' position and clearly saw that I
> > didn't want it ! Lived hand to mouth for about 2 years... made demands
> > on friends without a qualm... until the consulting work got
> > acknowledged... and then I've practically retired for an otherwise
> > very active life.
>
> > On Oct 30, 4:32 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Sorry your video is currently not available.. will try later I did some
> > > looking up to understand the raping of Nang I have actually known about for
> > > a long time ,, seems even before the internet why I don't recall any more..
> > > Maybe it is from the horrible abuse and treatment of the american Indian
> > > by my own government. and other minorities..
>
> > > I think people want to believe the soft sell packaged lies.. people
> > > apparently prefer to live in fear and accept lies rather than face the
> > > truth.. as for governments that color truth worse is it the USA or
> > > Great Britain? Both Countries seem to bury their heads in the sand when it
> > > comes to coloring their history. still am trying to figure out
> > > the British empire.
>
> > > Hopefully the Occupy Movement will have some effect positive I hope if the
> > > one percent want to control the wealth and government they at least to
> > > bear their fair share of the expenses based on percentage of ownership.
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 7:51 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > The current crisis is not one of banking or economics, but something
> > > > much more basic. One might say this is our attitude towards 'machines
> > > > of loving grace'. In short, we live in the fantasy that "the machine"
> > > > will put things right, returning to an equilibrium as our
> > > > interventions are little more than 'of mice and men'. The real world
> > > > of the environment and the exchange world of economics return to
> > > > equilibrium after fluctuations. It's very tempting to believe this -
> > > > one might see Gaia as a case in point - the planet and other species
> > > > flourishing after we've crazed ourselves to extinction through
> > > > consumption and wars.
>
> > > > You can pick up the ideas of 'all watched over by machines of loving
> > > > grace' here -
> > > >http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/2160186460/All-Watched-Over-By-M...
>
> > > > A review with an economic twist can be found here -
> > > >http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/the-natural-chaos-of-markets.html
>
> > > > My own work has often focused on the difference between espoused
> > > > theories and theories-in-action. In some subjects like chemistry the
> > > > relationship between theory and practice is good - if you follow the
> > > > rules and recipes you get what you intended and the explanations make
> > > > sense if you study enough. There is a working core, you can trust or
> > > > check the work of others and speculation can eventually be tested on
> > > > what is not accepted as 'settled'. In the human sciences this is much
> > > > more difficult, not least because we do not exclude much in human
> > > > society that prevents science. Few of us have much aptitude for
> > > > science, perhaps especially for its negation of ideology soaked up
> > > > from community.
>
> > > > I always noted as a teacher that I was more comfortable saying 'you
> > > > just can't handle the maths' (unlikely for me as I'd teach people like
> > > > that without the stuff), than in saying 'you just don't get argument
> > > > because you can't let go of any prejudice'. Teaching people to think
> > > > for themselves contains a paradox. One finds much one is expected to
> > > > teach based on dross. I know of no country in which history is taught
> > > > without gross ideological distortion. We hear the Japanese rip out
> > > > pages in textbooks on the 'rape of Nanking' yet it's rare to find
> > > > Brits who know much of our squalid imperialism and involvement in much
> > > > similar. In the middle east you will find a more accurate picture of
> > > > the Crusades than we get, but the Jihad that is the mirror image is
> > > > revered.
>
> > > > Most people like to imagine themselves as individual, but if we're
> > > > honest we are subjects of machines of loving grace. One makes one's
> > > > way in an economy (machine) on a planet (environmental machine). I
> > > > think these are only "machines" because we don't examine them.
> > > > Examination often ends in paradox - logical positivism eventually
> > > > conceded its own quest to extirpate metaphysics was - oops -
> > > > metaphysical. My own guess is that rigorous thinking seeks to
> > > > discover and eliminate dross - this involves a great deal of courage
> > > > in accepting you are likely made of same oneself!
>
> > > > I'm a maverick systems theorist and conceive of our social-political
> > > > arguments (and the systems themselves) as houses of cards. one looks
> > > > for the soft spots that can bring the lot down or as places to put in
> > > > effort to keep the ball rolling. No argument survives this process
> > > > more than twenty seconds with such soft spots arising. Most don't
> > > > have either the energy or tools to keep going and run to the 'bliss'
> > > > of the machine (religion, patriotism, left and right etc.). We are
> > > > thus robots of one 'machine' or another, not individuals, hardly
> > > > people if we're not careful.
>
> > > --
> > > (
> > > )
> > > |_D Allan
>
> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
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