but a good idea..
oddly though I think if I am right they will have a real surprise coming at their death especially when they find there is no wealth and the world they know disappears,, I know it sounds funny they will create their own hell far beyond what you and I can imagine,,
If one is supposed to live a spiritual life.. how does a person justify a life of material gain at the expense of others?
Allan
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 12:01 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
Many of my scientific colleagues believe the kind of bureaucrats we
have to suffer deserve long prison sentences - then we'll hang them!
On Nov 8, 8:55 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> to limits moneys access to politics is what is going to have to happen,,
> not allowing corporations involvement at all.. but like the problem will
> be greed and the need for secrecy. the politicians will not like having
> ever word recorded and every word said to them,, and extreme penalties to
> violating the rules including prison time for all involved.. and loss of
> all money for family members and relatives especially if the source of the
> money is the person violating the laws
>
> it will not be popular with the 1%
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ...> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:11 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Point 11 has traditionally been the Marxist line. The modern ones
> > like David Harvey talk of 'surplus capital' chasing ever diminishing
> > rates of return. I see the problem as us not being able to get what
> > we sensibly want, like warm homes without vast energy bills and the
> > environmental knock on and meaningful engagement as the social animals
> > we are. One of the interesting things at the moment is that there are
> > similarities between the usual right wing hatred of taxation and the
> > extent to which we are all 'taxed' by the rich and their Monopoly
> > games with money - how much of our work is funneled away by financial
> > services that increasingly look like organised crime or so Bill Gates
> > can 'redistribute on our behalf'?
>
> > One question has to be the extent to which we may be understanding
> > what's been going on 'unconsciously' and may be able to respond at
> > that level. Every test we can do shows that people are not appraised
> > of the facts, but the danger with this is that we then treat everyone
> > as morons for not knowing. I have classes I can teach to pass maths
> > tests at the end of a day's teaching with some in them who can't
> > remember the basics the following day when I try to push on to what
> > matters. These same people are often pretty competent at actual tasks
> > involving the maths if I routinise the stuff into software choice.
> > One can do this with quite complex social reasoning - but 'who writes
> > the software' remains an issue. And at bottom Gabby isn't the problem
> > about trusting anyone to do the planning because we fear they will rip
> > us off or turn 'totalist'? And behind this another fear that we can't
> > do the planning ourselves without creating such monsters?
>
> > On Nov 7, 7:35 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Yep, that's where I see IT having accepted their position too.
> > > the following day
>
> > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > In point 11 *It *seems the corporations and the people who lead them
> > are
> > > > already social paths
> > > > Allan
>
> > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 7:11 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> What strikes me on public dialogue is that we get a lot of opposing
> > > >> views put forward that are all based in ideology that can be stripped
> > > >> so bare as to be embarrassing. This holds true for political-economic
> > > >> stuff and many factual programmes on history -we still get 'Kings and
> > > >> Queens' and battles with little focus on how what democracy we have
> > > >> came about - amazingly,given much focus on the rich, we get little
> > > >> idea of how wealth is acquired and distributed. Moral discussion
> > > >> rarely gets in deep and there is massive bias towards received wisdom
> > > >> and language. Journalism is stuck in value from Victorian America on
> > > >> 'objectivity' - frankly worlds away from what can be justified in
> > > >> critical thought. In all their 'balance' they have failed to report on
> > > >> debt and wage decimation for 20 years. war reporting has been a
> > > >> complete sell-out since The Falklands Fiasco. In reporting the
> > > >> closure of fifty UK pubs a week, no mention was made of the fact that
> > > >> there was no longer any money in the hands of those who used to use
> > > >> them - in 1980 the bottom 50% had 14% of the country's liquid assets -
> > > >> now it's less than 1% - and clearly why businesses reliant on it have
> > > >> shut.
>
> > > >> Given that the cost of manufacturing in most products we buy is 10-15%
> > > >> it's hard to see the business case for much 'offshoring' and there has
> > > >> never been a case of us to decimate manufacturing other than for the
> > > >> ideological right wanting to kill off unions and gerrymander
> > > >> electorates.
>
> > > >> The positives we need to get to include (tomorrow):
> > > >> 1.bringing back manufacturing
> > > >> 2.limited debt jubilee
> > > >> 3. return to primitive banking
> > > >> 4. new greener products - we should aim to cut all domestic energy
> > > >> needs by 70%
> > > >> 5. bring in international/national service for all across US and
> > > >> Europe to abolish youth unemployment and long-term unemployment
> > > >> 6. raise wages
> > > >> 7. cap high earnings and bring in wealth taxes that ensure capital is
> > > >> invested
> > > >> 8.hang the next bankster who threatens the treason of selling out to
> > > >> some tax haven
> > > >> 9. insist on transparent accounting on a global basis (I teach the
> > > >> stuff and can no longer make sense of balance sheets)
> > > >> 10. no more derivatives
> > > >> 11. start looking for massive efficiency savings in new ways that
> > > >> don't turn corporations into sociopaths.
> > > >> 12. establish world-wide quality of working life standards and give
> > > >> the kind of support to all that leads to population control (which
> > > >> includes stopping the fear your kids are so likely to die you need to
> > > >> have loads).
> > > >> 13. stop money controlling politics - partly by ensuring it isn't to
> > > >> spare for this kind of influence.
> > > >> 14. encourage genuine self-reliance through more work-based learning.
> > > >> 15. make politicians meet in public (Internet broadcast) not in secret
> > > >> - and get on with a genuine peace that will entail getting rid of
> > > >> rougue states and medievalist clowns
>
> > > >> Whatever the list we need to decide it and not allow the brush off
> > > >> that we can't afford it. We can. What we can't afford is for it to
> > > >> turn into some centralised communism or be taken over by current
> > > >> centralised money.
>
> > > >> On Nov 7, 1:26 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > I share Pat's 'tears'. In science one can pull off the positive
> > > >> > eliminations and work with what's left. In the social this is
> > hardly
> > > >> > possible without moving into some solipsist fantasy as in Descartes
> > or
> > > >> > Ayn Rand's "objectivism". The farce in logical positivism is that
> > of
> > > >> > the return of desire. In attempting to extirpate system building
> > > >> > (metaphysics) one is really building another. 7 books may have been
> > > >> > written by Plato on how to stave off elite corruption - but of
> > course
> > > >> > he was crating an elite that would be corrupted as the Democracy was
> > > >> > corrupted around him,nearly always at war.
> > > >> > Inmy conception we are always working with the Undead memes of the
> > > >> > past and a way forward is to bring them to light.I at least partly
> > > >> > think my years in study (mostly teaching and research) have led to
> > me
> > > >> > some of the right places but one always faces the reality James
> > > >> > explains a bit above.
> > > >> > My frustration with philosophy is this - it relies on abilities few
> > > >> > have and over time has become a pastime for these few. Almost
> > > >> > everything in academe turns to this.
> > > >> > In one of those weird turns, had the new inheritance laws for royal
> > > >> > succession just brought in been around 200 years ago, the world wars
> > > >> > may not have happened because the king of England would have been
> > > >> > Germany's Kaiser. I suspect imperialism would have had its way
> > > >> > anyway, but some odd turn may lead us away from the current abyss.
> > > >> > OccupyX is at least getting at old left-right divides.
>
> > > >> > On Nov 5, 8:59 pm, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Pat <
> > PatrickDHarring...@hotmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > On Oct 27, 6:43 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > >> The communist angle always makes me smirk Pat. The original
> > > >> written
> > > >> > > >> form was elite (Plato) and aimed at cutting the temptations of
> > > >> > > >> corruption,and the American anti-commie stuff always failed to
> > > >> reflect
> > > >> > > >> on itself as dire ideology. These days we have 'loop theories'
> > > >> that
> > > >> > > >> relish both capitalism and communism in some kind of balance -
> > but
> > > >> in
> > > >> > > >> the end I just think we are at a past sell by date on both. I
> > > >> worked
> > > >> > > >> for Moldovan 'wages' (mostly food and board) when I lectured
> > there
> > > >> -
> > > >> > > >> three weeks worth more or less paid my train fare from the
> > > >> airport. I
> > > >> > > >> loved my days in the fields, mostly fixing machinery with parts
> > > >> bought
> > > >> > > >> with my university salary. I'd be closer to Allan on the
> > state of
> > > >> > > >> play than Rigsy. We have made casual labouring much more
> > difficult
> > > >> > > >> for our own people to do. We could do something around such
> > work,
> > > >> but
> > > >> > > >> the problem is it's so much cheaper to organise around migrant
> > > >> labour.
>
> > > >> > > > Cheaper, yes; exploitation, equally yes. Doesn't the 'West'
> > just
> > > >> love
> > > >> > > > to exploit those who it deems of less worth and then eke every
> > last
> > > >> > > > scrap of worth out of them? Of course, all in the name of
> > 'better'.
> > > >> > > > Sometimes, it makes me feel phyisically ill to think I, in some
> > > >> third-
> > > >> > > > party manner, benefit from such ill use of human resources.
> > But one
> > > >> > > > man can't stop it; it takes a mindset and paradigm shift to
> > occur in
> > > >> > > > the minds of, at least, 1% of the human population--and that's,
> > now,
> > > >> > > > roughly 70 million!!
>
> > > >> > > Waste is quite a
>
>
> read more »
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
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