use the word in some ideal way.
On Dec 24, 11:36 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Because you think Democracy will be fair- and it isn't. The Plutocracy
> within Democracy forms a brittle crust above the heap of the masses
> and set the ambitions and values.(The American consumer is not about
> to give up spending for the starving nor let banks and business fail/
> go belly up in a normal consequence, etc.) Moreover, radical
> government control simply creates a new set at the top. The rich are
> buying luxury goods at a steady clip- though now their sheared minks
> look similar to acrylic plush to the untrained eye and Zircon has
> become a cover for the real McCoy.// Virtue is not "silly" but cannot
> be enforced. The major changes come in the form of natural
> catastrophes, revolutions and wars but even these have a limited
> effect.
>
> On Dec 22, 6:00 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Vam is right (elsewhere) that I'm stuck in a rut on this - I often get
> > this way as there seems little to do other than bang one's head
> > against the walls of language. This isn't my particular rut as I
> > concluded long ago something not unlike Edward above. There are many
> > such critiques of economics - notably critical theory. Don is right
> > that lots of these "alternatives" seem to lead to rather silly
> > practice, demanding too much "virtue" and selfless activities.
> > I usually work until my head bleeds, take some space and see if I
> > understand anything differently. I only have glimmers at the moment
> > and suspect the big change may be that our own systems have led to
> > just the situation Don talks about above.
>
> > On Dec 21, 4:49 pm, Edward Mason <masonedward...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "In the context of history, religion has often been concernedwith
> > > economics and particularly freedom from debt."
>
> > > At least one particular view of history tends to indicate that the
> > > Builders ( like Nimrod, whose system is in practice and strongly
> > > applied today ), institutes religion and politics to mass absolute
> > > control. Economics is simply a heartless result.
>
> > > Which is why I advocate establishing a relationship with that creative
> > > force within us, by what ever terms we recognize it. That energy will
> > > evolve the human race beyond their needs as long as the individuals
> > > remain properly charged and teach Men (Humans) to do so. We get to
> > > this level by two simple Rules or Laws; i.e., Keeping this Energy ever
> > > before us and insure that our decisions are moral and just, especially
> > > in those heated and pressured moments. Societies have gotten lost in
> > > ancient attempts to test or defy these rules, because the language
> > > was lost, so to speak. Then what Knowledge was found was keep secrete
> > > from all but the few. The few gives the rest of the world Religion and
> > > Politics.
>
> > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 5:53 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > We can only change ourselves, alas.
>
> > > > On Dec 20, 9:07 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> I was watching a program on the Mayans and the writings about the
> > > >> milkyway being on the horizon.
>
> > > >> What I am seeing is the guilt complex where people know what is going on
> > > >> is wrong with the waste of resources are looking for a super natural
> > > >> solution to these problems. It seems they are wanting to say they saw I
> > > >> coming rather than doing what they can to change it.
> > > >> Allan
> > > >> On Dec 20, 2011 2:32 PM, "Molly" <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > On second thought, I was thinking of Thomas Mann when I wrote this,
> > > >> > and it has been a few decades since I read him. It has only been a
> > > >> > decade since I read the Moore work and his ideas on soul. Refresh my
> > > >> > memory, I am thinking you meant there is not enough evidence of soul
> > > >> > in the world, as many are not in touch with it.
>
> > > >> > On Dec 20, 7:57 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > Thomas Moore was an interesting guy. Very poignant writing yet ended
> > > >> > > up following hitler in the end, and his art fell apart, having lost
> > > >> > > his soul maybe.
>
> > > >> > > On Dec 19, 1:05 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > I could not disagree with that Molly - though something of the
> > > >> > > > "invisible hand" spooks me in all argument. I'm as sure as Thomas
> > > >> > > > Moore that we lack soul, but want something that differentiates mad
> > > >> > > > people like Ayn Rand and reason.
>
> > > >> > > > On Dec 19, 11:31 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > Morals and ethics that are entrenched in right and wrong and exclude
> > > >> > > > > or separate are human indeed, but have not yet seen the light of
> > > >> > > > > spirit. Much of religion, the "religion" mentioned in this discussion
> > > >> > > > > is of this. The individual journey of the heart to the non dual
> > > >> > > > > experience reaps the knowing that spirit includes and is revealed
> > > >> > > > > between the opposites, uniting them. Once this becomes the
> > > >> > individual
> > > >> > > > > view, the world of the non dual and all who share it is revealed.
> > > >> > > > > Words can only point the way and always fall short if the reader
> > > >> > > > > cannot connect the opposites with spirit. It takes a transcendence
> > > >> > > > > that can then forever be remembered. It makes time and space and
> > > >> > > > > opposition poignant and irrelevant. They don't disappear, but are
> > > >> > not
> > > >> > > > > important (or more automatic to be precise). A different ethics, one
> > > >> > > > > that is innate but forgotten, emerges. One that is not concerned
> > > >> > with
> > > >> > > > > right and wrong as it has been unified in spirit, aspects of the same
> > > >> > > > > element. One that unites, and sees conflict for what it is, the
> > > >> > realm
> > > >> > > > > of death (that is integral to life.) All of this is already present
> > > >> > > > > everywhere. It is the view that changes our experience, relationship
> > > >> > > > > and dynamic of it.
>
> > > >> > > > > On Dec 19, 2:45 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > There's a tedium in academic writing we don't have to suffer here.
> > > >> > > > > > Rigsy is right that most words are hidden behind, though I'm not
> > > >> > sure
> > > >> > > > > > the smell is sweet! Academe seems to have entirely failed in
> > > >> > > > > > providing us with some general way of reliable interpretation of
> > > >> > how
> > > >> > > > > > the world works and how we can control this in a reasonable way. I
> > > >> > > > > > broadly agree with Hitchins on religion - dated stories with too
> > > >> > much
> > > >> > > > > > current influence when we could do better etc. I suspect, though,
> > > >> > > > > > this neglects something of religion as a challenge to much bad in
> > > >> > > > > > feudalism and debt peonage - and, of course, there is something
> > > >> > wrong
> > > >> > > > > > with assuming the spiritual means believing in talking snakes and
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > > > > > rest of the fables. A book by David Graeber (Debt: the first 5000
> > > >> > > > > > years)touches on this several times and surprised me in that many
> > > >> > > > > > religious words and freedom words stem from 'debt freedom'.
> > > >> > > > > > I don't know about a happy medium rigsy (perhaps Molly is one -
> > > >> > LOL -
> > > >> > > > > > no I know that's not true) - but something happier is indeed
> > > >> > > > > > required. The moral aspect worries me because moralising so easily
> > > >> > > > > > closes to totalism - yet economics so often looks like the most
> > > >> > > > > > dreadful examples of cults that will do anything for what they
> > > >> > claim
> > > >> > > > > > is a greater good. "Austerity" is clearly a nonsense with sucker
> > > >> > > > > > appeal and is full of moral urging.
> > > >> > > > > > It all looks like a can of worms at the moment.
>
> > > >> > > > > > On Dec 18, 2:52 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > > Consider Steve Jobs and the stories that have surfaced about his
> > > >> > > > > > > "conflict" resolution style versus his contribution to
> > > >> > technology. And
> > > >> > > > > > > I could add many names from history/economic development that
> > > >> > > > > > > discarded drawing room manners for sheer autocracy-
> > > >> > > > > > > belligerance,included. Religion has been concerned with an
> > > >> > alternative
> > > >> > > > > > > to real life that the masses could cling to. There is a happy
> > > >> > medium.
>
> > > >> > > > > > > On Dec 17, 4:00 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > We have rules on ad hominem and such in here. It's only one
> > > >> > example
> > > >> > > > > > > > of an "ad" and in general such stuff is regarded as fallacy.
> > > >> > More
> > > >> > > > > > > > recent work on argument tends to say we need to recognise what
> > > >> > kind of
> > > >> > > > > > > > argument we are in as the rules vary in different forms. One
> > > >> > form of
> > > >> > > > > > > > argument is called eristic and its aim is to reveal deep
> > > >> > divisions. Ad
> > > >> > > > > > > > hom may be allowable in that. I'm writing a paper for a
> > > >> > conference
> > > >> > > > > > > > based on the notion that religion has a deep and generally
> > > >> > malevolent
> > > >> > > > > > > > influence in human behaviour - which has an implicit ad hom -
> > > >> > that
> > > >> > > > > > > > general religious stuff is the province of a kind of cowardice
> > > >> > (there
> > > >> > > > > > > > are lots of examples from the other side of course - such as
> > > >> > atheists
> > > >> > > > > > > > being immoral).
> > > >> > > > > > > > The main book I've been reading is by Walton (below) and a
> > > >> > digest
> > > >> > > > > > > > might be as follows:
>
> > > >> > > > > > > > Dialogue types:
> > > >> > > > > > > > Dialogue Type Initial Situation
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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