that used to put me near to sleep! I gave a "talk" that somehow pulled
me through that course. The rewards of math or science is that there
is a definite answer or result- usually- while the humanities and
behavioral studies can be amorphous bs.//I did think later of several
other mischiefs that erode cultures but it's all too depressing for a
Christmas Eve or whatever holiday and I send all good wishes via this
post. Again, I have turned down an exotic trip over the holidays-
somehow the thought of 12 hours on a plane sounded like torture-
another son preferred to ski, etc- so I decided Thanksgiving was
Christmas and will leave it at that! //
On Dec 24, 3:55 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Some of the most boring stuff I've had to read as an academic is
> critical theory - a sort of post-Marx marxism. I am marxist in the
> sense that I think one needs a dynamic sense of the material
> conditions of existence to do much thinking at all. Whatever I used
> to experiment with in the lab was only there because of material
> conditions like pressure, temperature and so on, behaving as it did
> for these reasons. This, of course, in only so much help and is
> decidedly clerical science if applied as reductionism or the only
> "engine" to view or take part in the world. Rigsy echoes WB Yeats in
> saying that revolution only changes who is on horseback and who gets
> ridden over roughshod. Most academic disciplines have a critical
> component that doubts the foundations - there are plenty of
> psychologists who believe personality is a baseless fiction. Even
> management studies once declared 'don't send your kids to business
> schools - they'd be better off living with nuclear scientists or
> Bohemians'. Of course, you can be a sinecured figure in the critical
> clique.
> In economics you can be a behavioural economist, applying psychology
> to the field - but why psychology when economics clearly deals with
> societies? None of the social sciences has any bedrock like physics,
> chemistry or biology. The very idea of a social science is a mistake
> in my view - though surely we have to accept there are good, bad,
> indifferent, sane and mad ways of going about our lives in some way.
> Science and religion share the idea that much human product is all of
> these things and more - and less. A key problem is that humans don't
> relate that much on a factual basis. Education, at least directly,
> has failed in this respect.
>
> On Dec 24, 11:36 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Because you think Democracy will be fair- and it isn't. The Plutocracy
> > within Democracy forms a brittle crust above the heap of the masses
> > and set the ambitions and values.(The American consumer is not about
> > to give up spending for the starving nor let banks and business fail/
> > go belly up in a normal consequence, etc.) Moreover, radical
> > government control simply creates a new set at the top. The rich are
> > buying luxury goods at a steady clip- though now their sheared minks
> > look similar to acrylic plush to the untrained eye and Zircon has
> > become a cover for the real McCoy.// Virtue is not "silly" but cannot
> > be enforced. The major changes come in the form of natural
> > catastrophes, revolutions and wars but even these have a limited
> > effect.
>
> > On Dec 22, 6:00 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Vam is right (elsewhere) that I'm stuck in a rut on this - I often get
> > > this way as there seems little to do other than bang one's head
> > > against the walls of language. This isn't my particular rut as I
> > > concluded long ago something not unlike Edward above. There are many
> > > such critiques of economics - notably critical theory. Don is right
> > > that lots of these "alternatives" seem to lead to rather silly
> > > practice, demanding too much "virtue" and selfless activities.
> > > I usually work until my head bleeds, take some space and see if I
> > > understand anything differently. I only have glimmers at the moment
> > > and suspect the big change may be that our own systems have led to
> > > just the situation Don talks about above.
>
> > > On Dec 21, 4:49 pm, Edward Mason <masonedward...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "In the context of history, religion has often been concernedwith
> > > > economics and particularly freedom from debt."
>
> > > > At least one particular view of history tends to indicate that the
> > > > Builders ( like Nimrod, whose system is in practice and strongly
> > > > applied today ), institutes religion and politics to mass absolute
> > > > control. Economics is simply a heartless result.
>
> > > > Which is why I advocate establishing a relationship with that creative
> > > > force within us, by what ever terms we recognize it. That energy will
> > > > evolve the human race beyond their needs as long as the individuals
> > > > remain properly charged and teach Men (Humans) to do so. We get to
> > > > this level by two simple Rules or Laws; i.e., Keeping this Energy ever
> > > > before us and insure that our decisions are moral and just, especially
> > > > in those heated and pressured moments. Societies have gotten lost in
> > > > ancient attempts to test or defy these rules, because the language
> > > > was lost, so to speak. Then what Knowledge was found was keep secrete
> > > > from all but the few. The few gives the rest of the world Religion and
> > > > Politics.
>
> > > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 5:53 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > We can only change ourselves, alas.
>
> > > > > On Dec 20, 9:07 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> I was watching a program on the Mayans and the writings about the
> > > > >> milkyway being on the horizon.
>
> > > > >> What I am seeing is the guilt complex where people know what is going on
> > > > >> is wrong with the waste of resources are looking for a super natural
> > > > >> solution to these problems. It seems they are wanting to say they saw I
> > > > >> coming rather than doing what they can to change it.
> > > > >> Allan
> > > > >> On Dec 20, 2011 2:32 PM, "Molly" <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> > On second thought, I was thinking of Thomas Mann when I wrote this,
> > > > >> > and it has been a few decades since I read him. It has only been a
> > > > >> > decade since I read the Moore work and his ideas on soul. Refresh my
> > > > >> > memory, I am thinking you meant there is not enough evidence of soul
> > > > >> > in the world, as many are not in touch with it.
>
> > > > >> > On Dec 20, 7:57 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> > > Thomas Moore was an interesting guy. Very poignant writing yet ended
> > > > >> > > up following hitler in the end, and his art fell apart, having lost
> > > > >> > > his soul maybe.
>
> > > > >> > > On Dec 19, 1:05 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> > > > I could not disagree with that Molly - though something of the
> > > > >> > > > "invisible hand" spooks me in all argument. I'm as sure as Thomas
> > > > >> > > > Moore that we lack soul, but want something that differentiates mad
> > > > >> > > > people like Ayn Rand and reason.
>
> > > > >> > > > On Dec 19, 11:31 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> > > > > Morals and ethics that are entrenched in right and wrong and exclude
> > > > >> > > > > or separate are human indeed, but have not yet seen the light of
> > > > >> > > > > spirit. Much of religion, the "religion" mentioned in this discussion
> > > > >> > > > > is of this. The individual journey of the heart to the non dual
> > > > >> > > > > experience reaps the knowing that spirit includes and is revealed
> > > > >> > > > > between the opposites, uniting them. Once this becomes the
> > > > >> > individual
> > > > >> > > > > view, the world of the non dual and all who share it is revealed.
> > > > >> > > > > Words can only point the way and always fall short if the reader
> > > > >> > > > > cannot connect the opposites with spirit. It takes a transcendence
> > > > >> > > > > that can then forever be remembered. It makes time and space and
> > > > >> > > > > opposition poignant and irrelevant. They don't disappear, but are
> > > > >> > not
> > > > >> > > > > important (or more automatic to be precise). A different ethics, one
> > > > >> > > > > that is innate but forgotten, emerges. One that is not concerned
> > > > >> > with
> > > > >> > > > > right and wrong as it has been unified in spirit, aspects of the same
> > > > >> > > > > element. One that unites, and sees conflict for what it is, the
> > > > >> > realm
> > > > >> > > > > of death (that is integral to life.) All of this is already present
> > > > >> > > > > everywhere. It is the view that changes our experience, relationship
> > > > >> > > > > and dynamic of it.
>
> > > > >> > > > > On Dec 19, 2:45 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> > > > > > There's a tedium in academic writing we don't have to suffer here.
> > > > >> > > > > > Rigsy is right that most words are hidden behind, though I'm not
> > > > >> > sure
> > > > >> > > > > > the smell is sweet! Academe seems to have entirely failed in
> > > > >> > > > > > providing us with some general way of reliable interpretation of
> > > > >> > how
> > > > >> > > > > > the world works and how we can control this in a reasonable way. I
> > > > >> > > > > > broadly agree with Hitchins on religion - dated stories with too
> > > > >> > much
> > > > >> > > > > > current influence when we could do better etc. I suspect, though,
> > > > >> > > > > > this neglects something of religion as a challenge to much bad in
> > > > >> > > > > > feudalism and debt peonage - and, of course, there is something
> > > > >> > wrong
> > > > >> > > > > > with assuming the spiritual means believing in talking snakes and
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > > > > rest of the fables. A book by David Graeber (Debt: the first 5000
> > > > >> > > > > > years)touches on this several times and surprised me in that many
> > > > >> > > > > > religious words and freedom words stem from 'debt freedom'.
> > > > >> > > > > > I don't know about a happy medium rigsy (perhaps Molly is one -
> > > > >> > LOL -
> > > > >> > > > > > no I know that's not true) - but something happier is indeed
> > > > >> > > > > > required. The moral aspect worries me because moralising so easily
> > > > >> > > > > > closes to totalism - yet economics so often looks like the most
> > > > >> > > > > > dreadful examples of cults that will do anything for what they
> > > > >> > claim
> > > > >> > > > > > is a greater good. "Austerity" is clearly a nonsense with sucker
> > > > >> > > > > > appeal and is full of moral urging.
>
> ...
>
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