Re: Mind's Eye Beliefs

Pocahantas was my childhood heroine.

On Jan 22, 7:21 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are right  I to am surprised in away how may people think of Indians as
> one group.
> But then from early childhood I always had to deal with several tribes..
>  then also chief Joesph was well respected among Montanans ,, who were
> trying to help him get to Canada..the army on the other hand was not
> respected..
>
> Chief Joesph was always a childhood hero,,   My uncle taught for years on
> the reservations two different tribes..  and they are different .. each
> tribe is special and unique ,,  it is strange but true I volunteered time
> in Gallup NM  and lived among the Hopi and Navajo with other  occasionally.
> When you are part of the local soup kitchen you get to know a lot of them..
>  and yes there is dislike between tribes..  even ran into old childhood
> friends who commented asking with comments like "what are you doing with
> him?" Oh yes Charlie was a Navajo and my right hand man..  ( the only way I
> could make sure he took his epilepsy medicine,,
>
> Life with Indians in it is always interesting. and they are defiantly not
> one group of people..  it is like putting all the entire human population
> as one race..
> Allan
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think it is a mistake to lump all american indian culture into one.
> > The nation as a whole was tribal, which brings with it all the
> > complications of the culture it implies for education, longevity,
> > intellectual development, technology etc...  There were a multitude of
> > tribes, each with its own value system.  Some, not as reverent as
> > others.
>
> > On Jan 22, 5:45 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Oddly as I was reading,a thought returned, the ladies owned the tepees,
> > > divorce was easy, she just had to throw his things outside and it was
> > > final,,,
>
> > > Indian wars among the tribes were in fact religious wars, being the first
> > > poles of the teppee were set by belief. ,,  not the beliefs were
> > indicated
> > > by whether you used 3 or 4 poles, horses were not a factor till after the
> > > Spanish came.
>
> > > The valley in which I was born was known as the valley of the flowers,,
> > it
> > > is said there was never any Indian blood shared there..  as the story
> > goes
> > >  there were two tribes battling it out  and a beautiful maiden appeared
> > and
> > > said they were not to spill the blood of their brothers in the valley of
> > > the flowers.  the battle stopped and there were no more wars there ,, as
> > > there are five different ways to come and go from the valley it became
> > the
> > > place where tribes meet it peace  and each leaving by a different route..
> > >  now the white men were not considered brothers and were fair game..
>
> > > Native american history can be a very fascinating  subject..
>
> > > Allan
> > > On Jan 22, 2012 1:33 AM, "James Lynch" <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I can appreciate your thoughts on this Eman, and Don we have more in
> > > > common than I knew! Hoping my critical assessment didn't sound too
> > > > hasty, as it has taken a bit of time for it to sink in for me, and
> > > > animism it seems is as ingrained and natural to man as the genes
> > > > themselves. Not to usher in any "necessary" conclusions from it
> > > > however. I am most interested in this cultural aspect as a vehicle to
> > > > further understanding our challenges and what we could do with it.
>
> > > > This could offer a comparison narrative to inspire our reflection in
> > > > the hopes of coming to common understandings and move forward
> > > > societies. Thinking out loud, what do you guys think, ideas?
>
> > > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Eman Abdulla <emana...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > I think that every culture has aspects of wisdom and depth. Cultures,
> > > > > like living organisms, are subject to survival struggles and those
> > > > > that don't make it to the top or last long enough under the spotlight
> > > > > are not necessarily less complex or enlightening as to the big
> > > > > questions of life and existence.  If it's all about the demise of the
> > > > > native culture and its followers, then the scales of power or as
> > Jared
> > > > > Diamond put it, guns, germs and steel settled the issue in favor of
> > > > > the stronger and privileged party. However, if it is about how we as
> > > > > individuals strive to better understand the world and communicate
> > with
> > > > > it on a primal level, there is much wisdom to be harnessed not only
> > in
> > > > > the heritage of the native Indians, but in all the legacies of
> > > > > defeated nations whose worldviews became obscure and presumably
> > > > > irrelevant. That doesn't mean adopting such worldviews, but
> > reflecting
> > > > > on and harnessing bits of wisdom wherever they maybe.
>
> > > > > On 1/21/12, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Can I leave my two bits here as well? Like many millions of other
> > > > Americans
> > > > >> I have some American Indian blood in me. Cherokee to be specific.
> > No, I
> > > > >> don't do dances around the fire and paint my face and jump around
> > > > wearing
> > > > >> feathers in my hair but take that image I just gave you as a
> > lagniappe.
> > > > I
> > > > >> WAS in the Indian Guides as a child. I was Little Arrow and my dad
> > was
> > > > Big
> > > > >> Arrow. Cute, huh?
>
> > > > >> The Indians created their 'religion' for the same reason Euros
> > created
> > > > >> theirs. To explain the unknown and control the populuce. Being
> > human the
> > > > >> Indians have the same capacity for love and hate and despair and
> > joy as
> > > > >> their European counterparts. The rather large differences in
> > culture, I
> > > > >> think, are mostly due to environmental factors. Euros were packed
> > > > closely
> > > > >> together and thus developed a culture based on property rights and
> > so
> > > > >> forth. Indians, especially plains Indians, were nomadic in nature.
> > No
> > > > >> concept of land ownership or any kind of ownership really. If you
> > saw
> > > > >> it and needed it you picked it up and used it. Strength was
> > respected
> > > > over
> > > > >> all else. The strongest had the prettest wives and the biggest tent.
> > > > (where
> > > > >> have I heard this before?) Many tribes warred with each other. In
> > many
> > > > of
> > > > >> their languages the word meaning 'stranger' is synonymous with the
> > word
> > > > >> 'enemy.' That's how they survived.  Overwhelming Euro numbers led to
> > > > their
> > > > >> inevitable destruction and absorbtion into Euro culture. Better
> > weapons
> > > > and
> > > > >> yes, disease played a role as well.
>
> > > > >> What I see as a mistake some make is an attempt to change or mold
> > human
> > > > >> nature to create a more ideal society. It don't work like that.
> > Some of
> > > > us
> > > > >> have a code we try to live by and the best one and most universal
> > is the
> > > > >> golden rule you are all familiar with. Works great on a personal
> > level
> > > > but
> > > > >> is impossible to police or regulate. For one thing, I don't want
> > people
> > > > >> horning in on my business so therefore I resent it when others try
> > to
> > > > horn
> > > > >> in on mine. Many other people I know WANT others all up in their
> > > > bizness.
> > > > >> Many people want to be cared for and coddled and protected without
> > > > >> contributing anything themselves. I don't support that. I never
> > will.
>
> > > > >> One of the greatest Indian warriors was Geronimo. Fought Mexican and
> > > > U.S.
> > > > >> troops and settlers for decades but finally surrendered and adopted
> > the
> > > > >> prevelant religion of both countries. A savy man was Geronimo. He
> > > > finally
> > > > >> saw the futility in his actions and took the only course for
> > survival
> > > > left
> > > > >> to him and his kinsmen. Cultural conversion.
>
> > > > >> dj
>
> > > > >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > >>> Hah, that's a humorous way to see it. I haven't delved into the
> > > > >>> specifics of the claim but two things stand out to me: that a diet
> > > > >>> increasingly reliant upon carbohydrates over protein which our
> > brains
> > > > >>> seem to be heavily reliant upon, and how our brains are used in our
> > > > >>> cultural environment (not US specific) since the agricultural
> > > > >>> revolution. The prefrontal cortex and cognitive development I think
> > > > >>> were the precursors to this, it was just a matter of time but I
> > think
> > > > >>> the human brain naturally evolved an extremely high intuitive
> > capacity
> > > > >>> for social relations, and tribal peoples I think implement that
> > > > >>> capacity to a greater degree. In an animist world (natural to
> > > > >>> tribal/our ancestors and children) the world is full of these
> > > > >>> relations, full of life. If we leave the context of modern society
> > we
> > > > >>> see a world with infinite potential for complex interrelationships,
> > > > >>> imagine a mind brought into that world with underlying cultural
> > roles
> > > > >>> that integrate all those sources of experience. This is not
> > something
> > > > >>> easy for us to grasp I think, and is often dismissed.
>
> > > > >>> Not that I'm especially privy to romantic notions like the noble
> > > > >>> savage, if I am saying anything it is that we've left something
> > behind
> > > > >>> and I think it haunts us, perhaps there is a developmental capacity
> > > > >>> that we've skipped when we jumped on board because the two
> > worldviews
> > > > >>> are so at odds, as they seem mutually antagonistic for coexistence
> > > > >>> purposes if on the point of resource exploitation alone, though
> > > > >>> history makes plain what happens to tribal cultures in the path of
> > > > >>> industry. Sorry to be so cryptic, it seems that we are missing
> > > > >>> something I can't point to. But it becomes clearer if you run the
> > > > >>> narrative, our timeline seems terribly skewed, something we should
> > be
> > > > >>> working to address. Especially now that our technological
> > innovations
> > > > >>> are reaching such maturity that we will be able to redefine the
> > human
>
> ...
>
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