defeats. But often, the defeated just emigrate to the victor-
sometimes known as the "brain drain" (?).
On Jan 21, 4:18 pm, Eman Abdulla <emana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that every culture has aspects of wisdom and depth. Cultures,
> like living organisms, are subject to survival struggles and those
> that don't make it to the top or last long enough under the spotlight
> are not necessarily less complex or enlightening as to the big
> questions of life and existence. If it's all about the demise of the
> native culture and its followers, then the scales of power or as Jared
> Diamond put it, guns, germs and steel settled the issue in favor of
> the stronger and privileged party. However, if it is about how we as
> individuals strive to better understand the world and communicate with
> it on a primal level, there is much wisdom to be harnessed not only in
> the heritage of the native Indians, but in all the legacies of
> defeated nations whose worldviews became obscure and presumably
> irrelevant. That doesn't mean adopting such worldviews, but reflecting
> on and harnessing bits of wisdom wherever they maybe.
>
> On 1/21/12, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Can I leave my two bits here as well? Like many millions of other Americans
> > I have some American Indian blood in me. Cherokee to be specific. No, I
> > don't do dances around the fire and paint my face and jump around wearing
> > feathers in my hair but take that image I just gave you as a lagniappe. I
> > WAS in the Indian Guides as a child. I was Little Arrow and my dad was Big
> > Arrow. Cute, huh?
>
> > The Indians created their 'religion' for the same reason Euros created
> > theirs. To explain the unknown and control the populuce. Being human the
> > Indians have the same capacity for love and hate and despair and joy as
> > their European counterparts. The rather large differences in culture, I
> > think, are mostly due to environmental factors. Euros were packed closely
> > together and thus developed a culture based on property rights and so
> > forth. Indians, especially plains Indians, were nomadic in nature. No
> > concept of land ownership or any kind of ownership really. If you saw
> > it and needed it you picked it up and used it. Strength was respected over
> > all else. The strongest had the prettest wives and the biggest tent. (where
> > have I heard this before?) Many tribes warred with each other. In many of
> > their languages the word meaning 'stranger' is synonymous with the word
> > 'enemy.' That's how they survived. Overwhelming Euro numbers led to their
> > inevitable destruction and absorbtion into Euro culture. Better weapons and
> > yes, disease played a role as well.
>
> > What I see as a mistake some make is an attempt to change or mold human
> > nature to create a more ideal society. It don't work like that. Some of us
> > have a code we try to live by and the best one and most universal is the
> > golden rule you are all familiar with. Works great on a personal level but
> > is impossible to police or regulate. For one thing, I don't want people
> > horning in on my business so therefore I resent it when others try to horn
> > in on mine. Many other people I know WANT others all up in their bizness.
> > Many people want to be cared for and coddled and protected without
> > contributing anything themselves. I don't support that. I never will.
>
> > One of the greatest Indian warriors was Geronimo. Fought Mexican and U.S.
> > troops and settlers for decades but finally surrendered and adopted the
> > prevelant religion of both countries. A savy man was Geronimo. He finally
> > saw the futility in his actions and took the only course for survival left
> > to him and his kinsmen. Cultural conversion.
>
> > dj
>
> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hah, that's a humorous way to see it. I haven't delved into the
> >> specifics of the claim but two things stand out to me: that a diet
> >> increasingly reliant upon carbohydrates over protein which our brains
> >> seem to be heavily reliant upon, and how our brains are used in our
> >> cultural environment (not US specific) since the agricultural
> >> revolution. The prefrontal cortex and cognitive development I think
> >> were the precursors to this, it was just a matter of time but I think
> >> the human brain naturally evolved an extremely high intuitive capacity
> >> for social relations, and tribal peoples I think implement that
> >> capacity to a greater degree. In an animist world (natural to
> >> tribal/our ancestors and children) the world is full of these
> >> relations, full of life. If we leave the context of modern society we
> >> see a world with infinite potential for complex interrelationships,
> >> imagine a mind brought into that world with underlying cultural roles
> >> that integrate all those sources of experience. This is not something
> >> easy for us to grasp I think, and is often dismissed.
>
> >> Not that I'm especially privy to romantic notions like the noble
> >> savage, if I am saying anything it is that we've left something behind
> >> and I think it haunts us, perhaps there is a developmental capacity
> >> that we've skipped when we jumped on board because the two worldviews
> >> are so at odds, as they seem mutually antagonistic for coexistence
> >> purposes if on the point of resource exploitation alone, though
> >> history makes plain what happens to tribal cultures in the path of
> >> industry. Sorry to be so cryptic, it seems that we are missing
> >> something I can't point to. But it becomes clearer if you run the
> >> narrative, our timeline seems terribly skewed, something we should be
> >> working to address. Especially now that our technological innovations
> >> are reaching such maturity that we will be able to redefine the human
> >> condition en masse. Funny, hasn't that always been the promise of
> >> innovation-
>
> >> Lost my thoughts somewhere.. I didn't know Shaman was a Russian word,
> >> neat.
>
> >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > I hope america gets over its shrinking brain syndrome.. some of the
> >> peoples
> >> > brain must be the size of a pea right now,,(lol ... Must have been a
> >> > great prophet in my youth who came up with the term pea brain -- then
> >> > researchers saying it would be several hundred years but that we were
> >> headed
> >> > that direction ) ah the prophets of doom (see i told you so)
>
> >> > Shaman is a russian term term and not and indian term it seem they
> >> > are classified by what and how they serve the tribe.
>
> >> > Yes I agree the US is paying the price for its arrogance (saying that I
> >> know
> >> > I am talking about myself too).. I hear that liberty for security..
> >> well I
> >> > think that the US is too blinded by corporate greed and spin to see the
> >> > truth.. and they are being spoon feed little by little losing both
> >> their
> >> > liberty and security;;
> >> > Allan
>
> >> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 12:18 AM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> We are paying dearly for our arrogance Allan, you know what they about
> >> >> those who sacrifice liberty for security. Our scientists are
> >> >> explaining the fact that our brains are shrinking with reassuring
> >> >> statements on progress and efficiency. Just transpose that with Neil's
> >> >> position on those terms and the marching rhythm of our cultural myths
> >> >> stops dead. I believe a Lakota shaman called Lame Deer put it more
> >> >> poetically. There are many things you won't find written, if you
> >> >> consider the purpose of the shaman to the tribe it is no surprise, and
> >> >> I believe explaining it as ignorance is kinda ironic. ;-)
>
> >> >> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Native american beliefs are earth based and a living world the
> >> concept
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > mother earth.. the western based concepts really do not fit any of
> >> the
> >> >> > developed western ideas and Ideals.
>
> >> >> > Within the beliefs there is great power and energy, I have
> >> >> > some experience with friends but am at a loss as to explain it. My
> >> own
> >> >> > experience most are of both sides I think with only a couple being
> >> >> > clearly
> >> >> > one sided. Native american beliefs are really not written down ,
> >> nor
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > they for sale, so I have been told.
> >> >> > Allan
>
> >> >> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Eman Abdulla <emana...@gmail.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> Hello Allan, I don't know much about native American belief system,
> >> >> >> but I think that constructing our own belief system is an open ended
> >> >> >> process, however, if we don't have a solid frame of reference, our
> >> >> >> minds and passions will take us in so many directions and who's to
> >> say
> >> >> >> what is wrong or right. For me, monotheism is a rational conclusion
> >> >> >> for my search for the true faith, supplemented by the multiple
> >> >> >> revelations that humans received throughout history. If I didn't
> >> >> >> have
> >> >> >> a religion that I saw fit to follow, I would have probably been
> >> simply
> >> >> >> a believer in one omniscient and omnipresent God.
>
> >> >> >> On 1/15/12, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > Was reading a concept on native american beliefs..
>
> >> >> >> > it is strange actually it is rereading the material .... There
> >> was
> >> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> > reference to to beliefs being born to the land. For some reason
> >> that
> >> >> >> > triggered a lot of thought.. what would happen the native beliefs
> >> >> >> > are
> >> >> >> > correct, and western thought is out of line. It seems that
> >> religions
> >> >> >> > have
> >> >> >> > a whole lot to do with rules and regulations and control of
> >> >> >> > others.
>
> >> >> >> > Oddly it seems that is a western concept. One I have never known
> >> >> >> > among
> >> >> >> > my
> >> >> >> > native american friends,
> >> >> >> > Allan
>
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > (
> >> >> >> > )
> >> >> >> > |_D Allan
>
> >> >> >> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > (
> >> >> > )
> >> >> > |_D Allan
>
> ...
>
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