Re: Mind's Eye Beliefs

I enjoyed reading this, Don- thank you for your "two bits".

On Jan 21, 3:32 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can I leave my two bits here as well? Like many millions of other Americans
> I have some American Indian blood in me. Cherokee to be specific. No, I
> don't do dances around the fire and paint my face and jump around wearing
> feathers in my hair but take that image I just gave you as a lagniappe. I
> WAS in the Indian Guides as a child. I was Little Arrow and my dad was Big
> Arrow. Cute, huh?
>
> The Indians created their 'religion' for the same reason Euros created
> theirs. To explain the unknown and control the populuce. Being human the
> Indians have the same capacity for love and hate and despair and joy as
> their European counterparts. The rather large differences in culture, I
> think, are mostly due to environmental factors. Euros were packed closely
> together and thus developed a culture based on property rights and so
> forth. Indians, especially plains Indians, were nomadic in nature. No
> concept of land ownership or any kind of ownership really. If you saw
> it and needed it you picked it up and used it. Strength was respected over
> all else. The strongest had the prettest wives and the biggest tent. (where
> have I heard this before?) Many tribes warred with each other. In many of
> their languages the word meaning 'stranger' is synonymous with the word
> 'enemy.' That's how they survived.  Overwhelming Euro numbers led to their
> inevitable destruction and absorbtion into Euro culture. Better weapons and
> yes, disease played a role as well.
>
> What I see as a mistake some make is an attempt to change or mold human
> nature to create a more ideal society. It don't work like that. Some of us
> have a code we try to live by and the best one and most universal is the
> golden rule you are all familiar with. Works great on a personal level but
> is impossible to police or regulate. For one thing, I don't want people
> horning in on my business so therefore I resent it when others try to horn
> in on mine. Many other people I know WANT others all up in their bizness.
> Many people want to be cared for and coddled and protected without
> contributing anything themselves. I don't support that. I never will.
>
> One of the greatest Indian warriors was Geronimo. Fought Mexican and U.S.
> troops and settlers for decades but finally surrendered and adopted the
> prevelant religion of both countries. A savy man was Geronimo. He finally
> saw the futility in his actions and took the only course for survival left
> to him and his kinsmen. Cultural conversion.
>
> dj
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hah, that's a humorous way to see it. I haven't delved into the
> > specifics of the claim but two things stand out to me: that a diet
> > increasingly reliant upon carbohydrates over protein which our brains
> > seem to be heavily reliant upon, and how our brains are used in our
> > cultural environment (not US specific) since the agricultural
> > revolution. The prefrontal cortex and cognitive development I think
> > were the precursors to this, it was just a matter of time but I think
> > the human brain naturally evolved an extremely high intuitive capacity
> > for social relations, and tribal peoples I think implement that
> > capacity to a greater degree. In an animist world (natural to
> > tribal/our ancestors and children) the world is full of these
> > relations, full of life. If we leave the context of modern society we
> > see a world with infinite potential for complex interrelationships,
> > imagine a mind brought into that world with underlying cultural roles
> > that integrate all those sources of experience. This is not something
> > easy for us to grasp I think, and is often dismissed.
>
> > Not that I'm especially privy to romantic notions like the noble
> > savage, if I am saying anything it is that we've left something behind
> > and I think it haunts us, perhaps there is a developmental capacity
> > that we've skipped when we jumped on board because the two worldviews
> > are so at odds, as they seem mutually antagonistic for coexistence
> > purposes if on the point of resource exploitation alone, though
> > history makes plain what happens to tribal cultures in the path of
> > industry. Sorry to be so cryptic, it seems that we are missing
> > something I can't point to. But it becomes clearer if you run the
> > narrative, our timeline seems terribly skewed, something we should be
> > working to address. Especially now that our technological innovations
> > are reaching such maturity that we will be able to redefine the human
> > condition en masse. Funny, hasn't that always been the promise of
> > innovation-
>
> > Lost my thoughts somewhere.. I didn't know Shaman was a Russian word, neat.
>
> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I hope america gets over its shrinking brain syndrome..  some of the
> > peoples
> > > brain must be the size of a pea right now,,(lol ... Must have been a
> > > great prophet in my youth who came up with the term pea brain  -- then
> > > researchers saying it would be several hundred years but that we were
> > headed
> > > that direction )   ah the prophets of doom  (see i told you so)
>
> > > Shaman is a russian term term and not and indian term it seem they
> > > are classified by what and how they serve the tribe.
>
> > > Yes I agree the US is paying the price for its arrogance (saying that I
> > know
> > > I am talking about myself too).. I hear that liberty for security..
> >  well I
> > > think that the US is too blinded by corporate greed and spin to see the
> > > truth..   and they are being spoon feed little by little losing both
> > their
> > > liberty and security;;
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 12:18 AM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >> We are paying dearly for our arrogance Allan, you know what they about
> > >> those who sacrifice liberty for security. Our scientists are
> > >> explaining the fact that our brains are shrinking with reassuring
> > >> statements on progress and efficiency. Just transpose that with Neil's
> > >> position on those terms and the marching rhythm of our cultural myths
> > >> stops dead. I believe a Lakota shaman called Lame Deer put it more
> > >> poetically. There are many things you won't find written, if you
> > >> consider the purpose of the shaman to the tribe it is no surprise, and
> > >> I believe explaining it as ignorance is kinda ironic. ;-)
>
> > >> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > Native american beliefs are earth based  and a living world  the
> > concept
> > >> > of
> > >> > mother earth..  the western based concepts really do not fit any of
> > the
> > >> > developed western ideas and Ideals.
>
> > >> > Within the beliefs there is great power and energy, I have
> > >> > some experience with friends but am at a loss as to explain it.   My
> > own
> > >> > experience most are of both sides I think with only a couple being
> > >> > clearly
> > >> > one sided.   Native american  beliefs are really not written down ,
> > nor
> > >> > are
> > >> > they for sale, so I have been told.
> > >> > Allan
>
> > >> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Eman Abdulla <emana...@gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
>
> > >> >> Hello Allan, I don't know much about native American belief system,
> > >> >> but I think that constructing our own belief system is an open ended
> > >> >> process, however, if we don't have a solid frame of reference, our
> > >> >> minds and passions will take us in so many directions and who's to
> > say
> > >> >> what is wrong or right. For me, monotheism is a rational conclusion
> > >> >> for my search for the true faith, supplemented by the multiple
> > >> >> revelations that humans received throughout history. If I didn't have
> > >> >> a religion that I saw fit to follow, I would have probably been
> > simply
> > >> >> a believer in one omniscient and omnipresent God.
>
> > >> >> On 1/15/12, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> > Was reading a concept on native american beliefs..
>
> > >> >> > it is strange actually it is rereading the material ....   There
> > was
> > >> >> > a
> > >> >> > reference to to beliefs being born to the land. For some reason
> > that
> > >> >> > triggered a lot of thought..  what would happen the native beliefs
> > >> >> > are
> > >> >> > correct, and western thought is out of line.  It seems that
> > religions
> > >> >> > have
> > >> >> > a whole lot to do with rules and regulations and control of others.
>
> > >> >> > Oddly it seems that is a western concept. One I have never known
> > >> >> > among
> > >> >> > my
> > >> >> > native american friends,
> > >> >> > Allan
>
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> >  (
> > >> >> >   )
> > >> >> > |_D Allan
>
> > >> >> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > >> > --
> > >> >  (
> > >> >   )
> > >> > |_D Allan
>
> > >> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > --
> > >  (
> > >   )
> > > |_D Allan
>
> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -