Can I leave my two bits here as well? Like many millions of other Americans I have some American Indian blood in me. Cherokee to be specific. No, I don't do dances around the fire and paint my face and jump around wearing feathers in my hair but take that image I just gave you as a lagniappe. I WAS in the Indian Guides as a child. I was Little Arrow and my dad was Big Arrow. Cute, huh?
The Indians created their 'religion' for the same reason Euros created theirs. To explain the unknown and control the populuce. Being human the Indians have the same capacity for love and hate and despair and joy as their European counterparts. The rather large differences in culture, I think, are mostly due to environmental factors. Euros were packed closely together and thus developed a culture based on property rights and so forth. Indians, especially plains Indians, were nomadic in nature. No concept of land ownership or any kind of ownership really. If you saw it and needed it you picked it up and used it. Strength was respected over all else. The strongest had the prettest wives and the biggest tent. (where have I heard this before?) Many tribes warred with each other. In many of their languages the word meaning 'stranger' is synonymous with the word 'enemy.' That's how they survived. Overwhelming Euro numbers led to their inevitable destruction and absorbtion into Euro culture. Better weapons and yes, disease played a role as well.
What I see as a mistake some make is an attempt to change or mold human nature to create a more ideal society. It don't work like that. Some of us have a code we try to live by and the best one and most universal is the golden rule you are all familiar with. Works great on a personal level but is impossible to police or regulate. For one thing, I don't want people horning in on my business so therefore I resent it when others try to horn in on mine. Many other people I know WANT others all up in their bizness. Many people want to be cared for and coddled and protected without contributing anything themselves. I don't support that. I never will.
One of the greatest Indian warriors was Geronimo. Fought Mexican and U.S. troops and settlers for decades but finally surrendered and adopted the prevelant religion of both countries. A savy man was Geronimo. He finally saw the futility in his actions and took the only course for survival left to him and his kinsmen. Cultural conversion.
dj
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM, James Lynch <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
Hah, that's a humorous way to see it. I haven't delved into the
specifics of the claim but two things stand out to me: that a diet
increasingly reliant upon carbohydrates over protein which our brains
seem to be heavily reliant upon, and how our brains are used in our
cultural environment (not US specific) since the agricultural
revolution. The prefrontal cortex and cognitive development I think
were the precursors to this, it was just a matter of time but I think
the human brain naturally evolved an extremely high intuitive capacity
for social relations, and tribal peoples I think implement that
capacity to a greater degree. In an animist world (natural to
tribal/our ancestors and children) the world is full of these
relations, full of life. If we leave the context of modern society we
see a world with infinite potential for complex interrelationships,
imagine a mind brought into that world with underlying cultural roles
that integrate all those sources of experience. This is not something
easy for us to grasp I think, and is often dismissed.
Not that I'm especially privy to romantic notions like the noble
savage, if I am saying anything it is that we've left something behind
and I think it haunts us, perhaps there is a developmental capacity
that we've skipped when we jumped on board because the two worldviews
are so at odds, as they seem mutually antagonistic for coexistence
purposes if on the point of resource exploitation alone, though
history makes plain what happens to tribal cultures in the path of
industry. Sorry to be so cryptic, it seems that we are missing
something I can't point to. But it becomes clearer if you run the
narrative, our timeline seems terribly skewed, something we should be
working to address. Especially now that our technological innovations
are reaching such maturity that we will be able to redefine the human
condition en masse. Funny, hasn't that always been the promise of
innovation-
Lost my thoughts somewhere.. I didn't know Shaman was a Russian word, neat.
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope america gets over its shrinking brain syndrome.. some of the peoples
> brain must be the size of a pea right now,,(lol ... Must have been a
> great prophet in my youth who came up with the term pea brain -- then
> researchers saying it would be several hundred years but that we were headed
> that direction ) ah the prophets of doom (see i told you so)
>
> Shaman is a russian term term and not and indian term it seem they
> are classified by what and how they serve the tribe.
>
> Yes I agree the US is paying the price for its arrogance (saying that I know
> I am talking about myself too).. I hear that liberty for security.. well I
> think that the US is too blinded by corporate greed and spin to see the
> truth.. and they are being spoon feed little by little losing both their
> liberty and security;;
> Allan
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 12:18 AM, James Lynch <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We are paying dearly for our arrogance Allan, you know what they about
>> those who sacrifice liberty for security. Our scientists are
>> explaining the fact that our brains are shrinking with reassuring
>> statements on progress and efficiency. Just transpose that with Neil's
>> position on those terms and the marching rhythm of our cultural myths
>> stops dead. I believe a Lakota shaman called Lame Deer put it more
>> poetically. There are many things you won't find written, if you
>> consider the purpose of the shaman to the tribe it is no surprise, and
>> I believe explaining it as ignorance is kinda ironic. ;-)
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Native american beliefs are earth based and a living world the concept
>> > of
>> > mother earth.. the western based concepts really do not fit any of the
>> > developed western ideas and Ideals.
>> >
>> > Within the beliefs there is great power and energy, I have
>> > some experience with friends but am at a loss as to explain it. My own
>> > experience most are of both sides I think with only a couple being
>> > clearly
>> > one sided. Native american beliefs are really not written down , nor
>> > are
>> > they for sale, so I have been told.
>> > Allan
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Eman Abdulla <emanaphd@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello Allan, I don't know much about native American belief system,
>> >> but I think that constructing our own belief system is an open ended
>> >> process, however, if we don't have a solid frame of reference, our
>> >> minds and passions will take us in so many directions and who's to say
>> >> what is wrong or right. For me, monotheism is a rational conclusion
>> >> for my search for the true faith, supplemented by the multiple
>> >> revelations that humans received throughout history. If I didn't have
>> >> a religion that I saw fit to follow, I would have probably been simply
>> >> a believer in one omniscient and omnipresent God.
>> >>
>> >> On 1/15/12, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Was reading a concept on native american beliefs..
>> >> >
>> >> > it is strange actually it is rereading the material .... There was
>> >> > a
>> >> > reference to to beliefs being born to the land. For some reason that
>> >> > triggered a lot of thought.. what would happen the native beliefs
>> >> > are
>> >> > correct, and western thought is out of line. It seems that religions
>> >> > have
>> >> > a whole lot to do with rules and regulations and control of others.
>> >> >
>> >> > Oddly it seems that is a western concept. One I have never known
>> >> > among
>> >> > my
>> >> > native american friends,
>> >> > Allan
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > (
>> >> > )
>> >> > |_D Allan
>> >> >
>> >> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > (
>> > )
>> > |_D Allan
>> >
>> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
>
>
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