The nation as a whole was tribal, which brings with it all the
complications of the culture it implies for education, longevity,
intellectual development, technology etc... There were a multitude of
tribes, each with its own value system. Some, not as reverent as
others.
On Jan 22, 5:45 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oddly as I was reading,a thought returned, the ladies owned the tepees,
> divorce was easy, she just had to throw his things outside and it was
> final,,,
>
> Indian wars among the tribes were in fact religious wars, being the first
> poles of the teppee were set by belief. ,, not the beliefs were indicated
> by whether you used 3 or 4 poles, horses were not a factor till after the
> Spanish came.
>
> The valley in which I was born was known as the valley of the flowers,, it
> is said there was never any Indian blood shared there.. as the story goes
> there were two tribes battling it out and a beautiful maiden appeared and
> said they were not to spill the blood of their brothers in the valley of
> the flowers. the battle stopped and there were no more wars there ,, as
> there are five different ways to come and go from the valley it became the
> place where tribes meet it peace and each leaving by a different route..
> now the white men were not considered brothers and were fair game..
>
> Native american history can be a very fascinating subject..
>
> Allan
> On Jan 22, 2012 1:33 AM, "James Lynch" <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I can appreciate your thoughts on this Eman, and Don we have more in
> > common than I knew! Hoping my critical assessment didn't sound too
> > hasty, as it has taken a bit of time for it to sink in for me, and
> > animism it seems is as ingrained and natural to man as the genes
> > themselves. Not to usher in any "necessary" conclusions from it
> > however. I am most interested in this cultural aspect as a vehicle to
> > further understanding our challenges and what we could do with it.
>
> > This could offer a comparison narrative to inspire our reflection in
> > the hopes of coming to common understandings and move forward
> > societies. Thinking out loud, what do you guys think, ideas?
>
> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Eman Abdulla <emana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think that every culture has aspects of wisdom and depth. Cultures,
> > > like living organisms, are subject to survival struggles and those
> > > that don't make it to the top or last long enough under the spotlight
> > > are not necessarily less complex or enlightening as to the big
> > > questions of life and existence. If it's all about the demise of the
> > > native culture and its followers, then the scales of power or as Jared
> > > Diamond put it, guns, germs and steel settled the issue in favor of
> > > the stronger and privileged party. However, if it is about how we as
> > > individuals strive to better understand the world and communicate with
> > > it on a primal level, there is much wisdom to be harnessed not only in
> > > the heritage of the native Indians, but in all the legacies of
> > > defeated nations whose worldviews became obscure and presumably
> > > irrelevant. That doesn't mean adopting such worldviews, but reflecting
> > > on and harnessing bits of wisdom wherever they maybe.
>
> > > On 1/21/12, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Can I leave my two bits here as well? Like many millions of other
> > Americans
> > >> I have some American Indian blood in me. Cherokee to be specific. No, I
> > >> don't do dances around the fire and paint my face and jump around
> > wearing
> > >> feathers in my hair but take that image I just gave you as a lagniappe.
> > I
> > >> WAS in the Indian Guides as a child. I was Little Arrow and my dad was
> > Big
> > >> Arrow. Cute, huh?
>
> > >> The Indians created their 'religion' for the same reason Euros created
> > >> theirs. To explain the unknown and control the populuce. Being human the
> > >> Indians have the same capacity for love and hate and despair and joy as
> > >> their European counterparts. The rather large differences in culture, I
> > >> think, are mostly due to environmental factors. Euros were packed
> > closely
> > >> together and thus developed a culture based on property rights and so
> > >> forth. Indians, especially plains Indians, were nomadic in nature. No
> > >> concept of land ownership or any kind of ownership really. If you saw
> > >> it and needed it you picked it up and used it. Strength was respected
> > over
> > >> all else. The strongest had the prettest wives and the biggest tent.
> > (where
> > >> have I heard this before?) Many tribes warred with each other. In many
> > of
> > >> their languages the word meaning 'stranger' is synonymous with the word
> > >> 'enemy.' That's how they survived. Overwhelming Euro numbers led to
> > their
> > >> inevitable destruction and absorbtion into Euro culture. Better weapons
> > and
> > >> yes, disease played a role as well.
>
> > >> What I see as a mistake some make is an attempt to change or mold human
> > >> nature to create a more ideal society. It don't work like that. Some of
> > us
> > >> have a code we try to live by and the best one and most universal is the
> > >> golden rule you are all familiar with. Works great on a personal level
> > but
> > >> is impossible to police or regulate. For one thing, I don't want people
> > >> horning in on my business so therefore I resent it when others try to
> > horn
> > >> in on mine. Many other people I know WANT others all up in their
> > bizness.
> > >> Many people want to be cared for and coddled and protected without
> > >> contributing anything themselves. I don't support that. I never will.
>
> > >> One of the greatest Indian warriors was Geronimo. Fought Mexican and
> > U.S.
> > >> troops and settlers for decades but finally surrendered and adopted the
> > >> prevelant religion of both countries. A savy man was Geronimo. He
> > finally
> > >> saw the futility in his actions and took the only course for survival
> > left
> > >> to him and his kinsmen. Cultural conversion.
>
> > >> dj
>
> > >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >>> Hah, that's a humorous way to see it. I haven't delved into the
> > >>> specifics of the claim but two things stand out to me: that a diet
> > >>> increasingly reliant upon carbohydrates over protein which our brains
> > >>> seem to be heavily reliant upon, and how our brains are used in our
> > >>> cultural environment (not US specific) since the agricultural
> > >>> revolution. The prefrontal cortex and cognitive development I think
> > >>> were the precursors to this, it was just a matter of time but I think
> > >>> the human brain naturally evolved an extremely high intuitive capacity
> > >>> for social relations, and tribal peoples I think implement that
> > >>> capacity to a greater degree. In an animist world (natural to
> > >>> tribal/our ancestors and children) the world is full of these
> > >>> relations, full of life. If we leave the context of modern society we
> > >>> see a world with infinite potential for complex interrelationships,
> > >>> imagine a mind brought into that world with underlying cultural roles
> > >>> that integrate all those sources of experience. This is not something
> > >>> easy for us to grasp I think, and is often dismissed.
>
> > >>> Not that I'm especially privy to romantic notions like the noble
> > >>> savage, if I am saying anything it is that we've left something behind
> > >>> and I think it haunts us, perhaps there is a developmental capacity
> > >>> that we've skipped when we jumped on board because the two worldviews
> > >>> are so at odds, as they seem mutually antagonistic for coexistence
> > >>> purposes if on the point of resource exploitation alone, though
> > >>> history makes plain what happens to tribal cultures in the path of
> > >>> industry. Sorry to be so cryptic, it seems that we are missing
> > >>> something I can't point to. But it becomes clearer if you run the
> > >>> narrative, our timeline seems terribly skewed, something we should be
> > >>> working to address. Especially now that our technological innovations
> > >>> are reaching such maturity that we will be able to redefine the human
> > >>> condition en masse. Funny, hasn't that always been the promise of
> > >>> innovation-
>
> > >>> Lost my thoughts somewhere.. I didn't know Shaman was a Russian word,
> > >>> neat.
>
> > >>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> > I hope america gets over its shrinking brain syndrome.. some of the
> > >>> peoples
> > >>> > brain must be the size of a pea right now,,(lol ... Must have been a
> > >>> > great prophet in my youth who came up with the term pea brain --
> > then
> > >>> > researchers saying it would be several hundred years but that we were
> > >>> headed
> > >>> > that direction ) ah the prophets of doom (see i told you so)
>
> > >>> > Shaman is a russian term term and not and indian term it seem they
> > >>> > are classified by what and how they serve the tribe.
>
> > >>> > Yes I agree the US is paying the price for its arrogance (saying
> > that I
> > >>> know
> > >>> > I am talking about myself too).. I hear that liberty for security..
> > >>> well I
> > >>> > think that the US is too blinded by corporate greed and spin to see
> > the
> > >>> > truth.. and they are being spoon feed little by little losing both
> > >>> their
> > >>> > liberty and security;;
> > >>> > Allan
>
> > >>> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 12:18 AM, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
>
> > >>> >> We are paying dearly for our arrogance Allan, you know what they
> > about
> > >>> >> those who sacrifice liberty for security. Our scientists are
> > >>> >> explaining the fact that our brains are shrinking with reassuring
> > >>> >> statements on progress and efficiency. Just transpose that with
> > Neil's
> > >>> >> position on those terms and the marching rhythm of our cultural
> > myths
> > >>> >> stops dead. I believe a Lakota shaman called Lame Deer put it more
> > >>> >> poetically. There are many things you won't find written, if you
> > >>> >> consider the purpose of the shaman to the tribe it is no surprise,
> > and
> > >>> >> I believe explaining it as ignorance is kinda ironic. ;-)
>
> > >>> >> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>> >> > Native american beliefs are earth based and a living world the
> > >>> concept
> > >>> >> > of
> > >>> >> > mother
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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