of youth were lies. As I was growing up the bottom half of our
society had about 14% of liquid assets (more or less cash) and this is
down to 1% now and is the economic problem. Germans in general were
poor in comparison with the British before WW1 and about equally
screwed at the end of WW2. Oldies everywhere like to attribute our
success to hard work and have the young repeat our 'triumphs'. This
is smug idiocy to me Gabby, not a view I share. One of the 'triumphs'
is that of the clown capitalism that makes money by exploiting 19th
century work practices around the world and that banksterism that
turns finance into Ponzi bubbles. Most of the games I played as a
child involved killing Germans, Japanese and 'Red Indians' (most of
whom had been erased through genocide). This ludicrous xenophobia is
barely broken in our collective mythstory and soon we will realise the
Chinese are the new Germans, though never our own imperialism or the
cameralism Hegel opined on that has us as subjects of the State rather
than basing society on secure, autonomous people. The work ethic is
central to this and we need a new one.
On Mar 28, 2:31 am, Ash <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just reading a little bit about Prussia, finally caught onto
> that 'each unto his own' business. There are some interesting
> references between American education, centralisation and such, very
> interesting. It'll take a bit more verifying before siding with that
> teacher from NY but _very_ interesting stuff nonetheless!
>
> On Mar 27, 2:33 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Your position resembles me a lot of my 70plus friends here in Germany. They
> > generally have plenty of leisure time and money and find us middle aged
> > neurotic. Their life was hard and looking back a little of that emotional
> > warmth in the bunker/ Planwirtschaft would do us good to be able to
> > understand what life really is about. And unfortunately capital punishment
> > is not allowed here anymore.
>
> > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:45 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Your gist is right Don - though I fear they fancy war as the way out.
> > > I think where we lost the plot is in not realising how little work is
> > > now needed for a decent society and how much leisure we could have if
> > > we weren't so neurotic. I think competition should start on the basis
> > > of decent wages and a salary cap - but how do we do this wiithout
> > > something as perverse as a dictatorship of the mediocre?
>
> > > On Mar 26, 6:10 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > - In the
> > > > real world the horse is a dead donkey and I'm lending money to a bunch
> > > > of unemployable drifters who borrow the money to drink at ever
> > > > increasing prices in my pub.
>
> > > > The Bwanksters. I get it. That whole mortgage bundling scam is at the
> > > root
> > > > of all our troubles. The SEC should have never let that happen. Smells
> > > like
> > > > fraud. House values are still falsely inflated.
>
> > > > In the Macro where billions are at work my little example of what money
> > > > is(more like what it should be) does crumble. To dust. However, the vast
> > > > majority of us use money in just such a fashion as I have suggested. So I
> > > > do see your point on how the Bwanksters are hosing us. We let them
> > > though.
> > > > They couldn't do it if we didn't enjoy it. We meaning the General Public.
> > > > We like our houses and nice cars and some folks even borrow to buy their
> > > > toys. RVs and boats and such. wth you can always declare bankruptcy,
> > > right?
> > > > This kind of thinking has us where we are. Bankruptcy is supposed to
> > > teach
> > > > us something. Give us 7 years of no credit to become lean and learn
> > > > sacrifice and thrift.
>
> > > > We ain't larnin nothin'. The entire Occupy WJ movement seems to be about
> > > > gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. I did switch all my banking to my credit union.
> > > > That's my big stand.
>
> > > > dj
>
> > > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:54 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Sadly Don, money ain't what you say - though I wish it was. We have
> > > > > blue, brown and purple beer vouchers over here that correspond to the
> > > > > money you mean and one can borrow these from banks as long as you
> > > > > don't mention you aim to blow it on wine, women and song. This is the
> > > > > stuff we work for, but money and debt have become really weird. The
> > > > > beer (or family comfort) vouchers in our pockets are being devalued in
> > > > > all kinds of ways we have no control over - from Tarp to queezing to
> > > > > the machinations of offshore "management techniques" that shift jobs
> > > > > abroad to depress our wages and evade tax through transfer pricing -
> > > > > plus the looting through capital flight. The price we pay for a
> > > > > banana includes all this.
> > > > > The current rumour is even Germany is hiding a trillion or so of bank
> > > > > debt. I think Allan is right and Molly's money-lenders' tables are
> > > > > the false accounting ones of governments and banks. Thieving and
> > > > > government bread and circuses rather than genuine public spending seem
> > > > > likely culprits. Every debt should produce a productive asset - so
> > > > > why are these debts all feared to be so bad? The standard answer at
> > > > > the moment is it's all a Ponzi that requires asset prices to keep
> > > > > rising and new money to keep flowing in. As Molly says it's an old
> > > > > story - though I think more of the South Sea Bubble and French people
> > > > > signing contracts to buy bits of Louisiana on a hunchback, thinking
> > > > > it was an island off the west coast of America.
> > > > > Only 19% of the Greek bailout reached Greece and we still have no clue
> > > > > who owns much bigger worthless debt in Spain and Portugal. No one
> > > > > knows what, if anything, any of this massive electronically created
> > > > > money (debt is the new money) bought. Bank debt in the UK is massive
> > > > > but this would be a good thing if the investments were wise (much of
> > > > > it is held by foreign banks based here - maybe for the bad reasons
> > > > > Lehmann was here with its repo 105 fiddles). Money is now produced in
> > > > > accounting fiddles and this is the same money we hold as 'beer
> > > > > vouchers'. London is the centre of all this, but the debt held in
> > > > > Eurozone banks is massive.
>
> > > > > Repos work a bit like this - Don sells me his best horse and agrees to
> > > > > buy it back on a set date for a bit more than he sells it to me - this
> > > > > is like me giving Don a loan with the horse as collateral (the extra
> > > > > he pays at the end is really interest). I never get the horse but can
> > > > > use it (hypothecate) as my collateral for the period of the repo. In
> > > > > fact this can happen several times, and Don's horse can be the
> > > > > collateral behind thousands of trades, all supposedly insured through
> > > > > derivatives. So Don has his repo money and I'm loaning out loads more
> > > > > on the basis of a claim on his horse. If all the loans work we are
> > > > > both quids in and it's all insured so Don's horse is never at risk.
> > > > > Fine, except these trades aren't between men like me and Don. In the
> > > > > real world the horse is a dead donkey and I'm lending money to a bunch
> > > > > of unemployable drifters who borrow the money to drink at ever
> > > > > increasing prices in my pub.
>
> > > > > On Mar 25, 8:09 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Money is simply a means to goods and services we need or want. I
> > > don't
> > > > > > consider it greedy or immoral to want more for myself and family
> > > when it
> > > > > > comes to safety and comfort. Some would call this materialistic I
> > > call it
> > > > > > good policy. The more I make the more I feel safe. That is, I don't
> > > worry
> > > > > > about food and shelter. That said, I will agree our society in
> > > general
> > > > > buys
> > > > > > far more then it needs. We often borrow to do it. This is bad. It's
> > > bad
> > > > > > when individuals do it and it's bad when governments do it. I would
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > you see the borrowing part as the evil and not the spending part. In
> > > > > > general, spending is good. It helps us all and grows the economy.
> > > > > Borrowing
> > > > > > is a false growth for which Greece and the US and others must now
> > > pay the
> > > > > > price for. Each successive admin. keeps borrowing more and pushing
> > > the
> > > > > day
> > > > > > of reckoning off another year. Or 4. Someday this buck passing must
> > > end.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > see Europe as trying it's best to end it for Greece.
>
> > > > > > It's not going to be pretty.
>
> > > > > > dj
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > age old tale. Christ overturns the tables of the money changers in
> > > > > > > the temple.
>
> > > > > > > On Mar 24, 11:54 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Was playing solitary thinking about the movie series the wife
> > > and I
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > watching, writing poetry at 5:30 am with daylight savings time
> > > > > kicking
> > > > > > > in..
> > > > > > > > of with writing poetry thinking semi kicks in there in lies the
> > > > > problem..
>
> > > > > > > > Looking at the debt crisis of Greece -- thinking about the movie
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > physical black cloud that can drag you away .. the
> > > representation of
> > > > > pure
> > > > > > > > evil...
> > > > > > > > It dawned on me with Greece being hit extremely hard bar the
> > > > > financial
> > > > > > > > crisis.. three is a rather strange relationship there. Greece is
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > > the seat of modern day Christianity........ banking has taken
> > > over
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > country which forms roots of spiritual christianity .
> > > > > > > > In Greece and the rest of the world money banksters have replaced
> > > > > God...
>
> > > > > > > > The real guest ion is has money and its pursuit replaced God and
> > > > > > > morality?
> > > > > > > > As shown in Greece.
> > > > > > > > Allan
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