their circumstances and education so there was bound to be friction as
we were often the first with college and advanced degrees- not to say
they lacked practical and folk wisdom. Even if they had achieved
success, there were social boundaries that money could not buy which
didn't bother me, frankly, though I dated them (they have had their
miseries, believe me). I think we married young to get out of the
house and took whomever was handy at the time- have heard many
sorrowful tales of tears and regrets even as the reception was taking
place!//People do not save because the banks do not reward them with
decent interest rates.//What is work? I think I have been a hard
worker but a stay-at-home mom has less respect generally than...
( fill in the blank).//My summer camp had a lot of Indian themes-
nevermind the poverty of the real Indians a few miles away! But, when
8 or so, we played detective a la Dick Tracy, etc. The real mobs of
the time might have got our attention?//Yes- "we" seem to need those
"bad guys"- whomever and wherever- but there are many ways to approach
that subject, I think.//Must have only read Vol. I of Churchill's
history of English peoples as I certainly would have recalled slogging
about Europe with the Duke of Marlborough and the Dutch! :-) Am now up
to Geo.III and the American Revolution. Yes- he smoothes and asides,
but I must say- reading Churchill is close to hearing his voice,
getting a waft of cigar smoke and the clink of a glass.
On Mar 28, 4:16 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Getting old has been more a process of realising the promises of days
> of youth were lies. As I was growing up the bottom half of our
> society had about 14% of liquid assets (more or less cash) and this is
> down to 1% now and is the economic problem. Germans in general were
> poor in comparison with the British before WW1 and about equally
> screwed at the end of WW2. Oldies everywhere like to attribute our
> success to hard work and have the young repeat our 'triumphs'. This
> is smug idiocy to me Gabby, not a view I share. One of the 'triumphs'
> is that of the clown capitalism that makes money by exploiting 19th
> century work practices around the world and that banksterism that
> turns finance into Ponzi bubbles. Most of the games I played as a
> child involved killing Germans, Japanese and 'Red Indians' (most of
> whom had been erased through genocide). This ludicrous xenophobia is
> barely broken in our collective mythstory and soon we will realise the
> Chinese are the new Germans, though never our own imperialism or the
> cameralism Hegel opined on that has us as subjects of the State rather
> than basing society on secure, autonomous people. The work ethic is
> central to this and we need a new one.
>
> On Mar 28, 2:31 am, Ash <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was just reading a little bit about Prussia, finally caught onto
> > that 'each unto his own' business. There are some interesting
> > references between American education, centralisation and such, very
> > interesting. It'll take a bit more verifying before siding with that
> > teacher from NY but _very_ interesting stuff nonetheless!
>
> > On Mar 27, 2:33 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Your position resembles me a lot of my 70plus friends here in Germany. They
> > > generally have plenty of leisure time and money and find us middle aged
> > > neurotic. Their life was hard and looking back a little of that emotional
> > > warmth in the bunker/ Planwirtschaft would do us good to be able to
> > > understand what life really is about. And unfortunately capital punishment
> > > is not allowed here anymore.
>
> > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:45 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Your gist is right Don - though I fear they fancy war as the way out.
> > > > I think where we lost the plot is in not realising how little work is
> > > > now needed for a decent society and how much leisure we could have if
> > > > we weren't so neurotic. I think competition should start on the basis
> > > > of decent wages and a salary cap - but how do we do this wiithout
> > > > something as perverse as a dictatorship of the mediocre?
>
> > > > On Mar 26, 6:10 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > - In the
> > > > > real world the horse is a dead donkey and I'm lending money to a bunch
> > > > > of unemployable drifters who borrow the money to drink at ever
> > > > > increasing prices in my pub.
>
> > > > > The Bwanksters. I get it. That whole mortgage bundling scam is at the
> > > > root
> > > > > of all our troubles. The SEC should have never let that happen. Smells
> > > > like
> > > > > fraud. House values are still falsely inflated.
>
> > > > > In the Macro where billions are at work my little example of what money
> > > > > is(more like what it should be) does crumble. To dust. However, the vast
> > > > > majority of us use money in just such a fashion as I have suggested. So I
> > > > > do see your point on how the Bwanksters are hosing us. We let them
> > > > though.
> > > > > They couldn't do it if we didn't enjoy it. We meaning the General Public.
> > > > > We like our houses and nice cars and some folks even borrow to buy their
> > > > > toys. RVs and boats and such. wth you can always declare bankruptcy,
> > > > right?
> > > > > This kind of thinking has us where we are. Bankruptcy is supposed to
> > > > teach
> > > > > us something. Give us 7 years of no credit to become lean and learn
> > > > > sacrifice and thrift.
>
> > > > > We ain't larnin nothin'. The entire Occupy WJ movement seems to be about
> > > > > gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. I did switch all my banking to my credit union.
> > > > > That's my big stand.
>
> > > > > dj
>
> > > > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:54 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Sadly Don, money ain't what you say - though I wish it was. We have
> > > > > > blue, brown and purple beer vouchers over here that correspond to the
> > > > > > money you mean and one can borrow these from banks as long as you
> > > > > > don't mention you aim to blow it on wine, women and song. This is the
> > > > > > stuff we work for, but money and debt have become really weird. The
> > > > > > beer (or family comfort) vouchers in our pockets are being devalued in
> > > > > > all kinds of ways we have no control over - from Tarp to queezing to
> > > > > > the machinations of offshore "management techniques" that shift jobs
> > > > > > abroad to depress our wages and evade tax through transfer pricing -
> > > > > > plus the looting through capital flight. The price we pay for a
> > > > > > banana includes all this.
> > > > > > The current rumour is even Germany is hiding a trillion or so of bank
> > > > > > debt. I think Allan is right and Molly's money-lenders' tables are
> > > > > > the false accounting ones of governments and banks. Thieving and
> > > > > > government bread and circuses rather than genuine public spending seem
> > > > > > likely culprits. Every debt should produce a productive asset - so
> > > > > > why are these debts all feared to be so bad? The standard answer at
> > > > > > the moment is it's all a Ponzi that requires asset prices to keep
> > > > > > rising and new money to keep flowing in. As Molly says it's an old
> > > > > > story - though I think more of the South Sea Bubble and French people
> > > > > > signing contracts to buy bits of Louisiana on a hunchback, thinking
> > > > > > it was an island off the west coast of America.
> > > > > > Only 19% of the Greek bailout reached Greece and we still have no clue
> > > > > > who owns much bigger worthless debt in Spain and Portugal. No one
> > > > > > knows what, if anything, any of this massive electronically created
> > > > > > money (debt is the new money) bought. Bank debt in the UK is massive
> > > > > > but this would be a good thing if the investments were wise (much of
> > > > > > it is held by foreign banks based here - maybe for the bad reasons
> > > > > > Lehmann was here with its repo 105 fiddles). Money is now produced in
> > > > > > accounting fiddles and this is the same money we hold as 'beer
> > > > > > vouchers'. London is the centre of all this, but the debt held in
> > > > > > Eurozone banks is massive.
>
> > > > > > Repos work a bit like this - Don sells me his best horse and agrees to
> > > > > > buy it back on a set date for a bit more than he sells it to me - this
> > > > > > is like me giving Don a loan with the horse as collateral (the extra
> > > > > > he pays at the end is really interest). I never get the horse but can
> > > > > > use it (hypothecate) as my collateral for the period of the repo. In
> > > > > > fact this can happen several times, and Don's horse can be the
> > > > > > collateral behind thousands of trades, all supposedly insured through
> > > > > > derivatives. So Don has his repo money and I'm loaning out loads more
> > > > > > on the basis of a claim on his horse. If all the loans work we are
> > > > > > both quids in and it's all insured so Don's horse is never at risk.
> > > > > > Fine, except these trades aren't between men like me and Don. In the
> > > > > > real world the horse is a dead donkey and I'm lending money to a bunch
> > > > > > of unemployable drifters who borrow the money to drink at ever
> > > > > > increasing prices in my pub.
>
> > > > > > On Mar 25, 8:09 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Money is simply a means to goods and services we need or want. I
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > consider it greedy or immoral to want more for myself and family
> > > > when it
> > > > > > > comes to safety and comfort. Some would call this materialistic I
> > > > call it
> > > > > > > good policy. The more I make the more I feel safe. That is, I don't
> > > > worry
> > > > > > > about food and shelter. That said, I will agree our society in
> > > > general
> > > > > > buys
> > > > > > > far more then it needs. We often borrow to do it. This is bad. It's
> > > > bad
> > > > > > > when individuals do it and it's bad when governments do it. I would
> > > > > > rather
> > > > > > > you see the borrowing part as the evil and not the spending part. In
> > > > > > > general, spending is good. It helps us all and grows the economy.
> > > > > > Borrowing
> > > > > > > is a false growth for which Greece and the US and others must now
> > > > pay the
> > > > > > > price for. Each successive admin. keeps borrowing more and pushing
> > > > the
> > > > > > day
> > > > > > > of reckoning off another year. Or 4. Someday this buck passing must
> > > > end.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > see Europe as trying it's best to end it for Greece.
>
> > > > > > > It's not going to be pretty.
>
> > > > > > > dj
>
> > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > age old tale. Christ overturns the tables of the money changers in
> > > > > > > > the temple.
>
> > > > > > > > On Mar 24, 11:54 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Was playing solitary thinking about the movie series the wife
> > > > and I
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > watching, writing poetry at 5:30 am with daylight savings time
> > > > > > kicking
> > > > > > > > in..
> > > > > > > > > of with writing poetry thinking semi kicks in there in lies the
> > > > > > problem..
>
> > > > > > > > > Looking at the debt crisis of Greece -- thinking about the movie
> > > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > > physical black cloud that can drag you away .. the
> > > > representation of
> > > > > > pure
>
> ...
>
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