Re: Mind's Eye New Google Groups is Dumb,but this not the subject

The Cave Painting revealed the Physical.

Contemporary Language + Tech combine has revealed the Mental ... www

On Jun 27, 9:20 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Maybe, language creates the illusion of the reality- or distorts it.
> We have evolved from cave paintings to symbols to language to
> communicate. How has that been working out for humanity?
>
> On Jun 25, 2:09 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
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> > I think you will appreciate this one Malcolm (among others), from an
> > engineering standpoint nature has an amazing potential processing
> > capacity. The bandwidth, symbol diversity, depth of recursion, expansion
> > and contraction of emergent phenomena, stochastic boundary interference.
> > Who am I to say what /is/, what /could be/ is beyond words if creatures
> > as limited as we on an astronomical scale can see so much and reach out
> > so far in such a short time. Toward what, I think, we cannot imagine
> > it's significance (yet). The internet may evolve into a global central
> > nervous system given time, we may even learn a thing or two from
> > mathematics and what it means /that/ we do it. There is so much work to
> > be done on this little anthill!!
>
> >   "Whereas an engineered control system has a reference value or
> > setpoint adjusted by some external agency, the reference value for a
> > biological control system cannot be set in this way. The setpoint must
> > come from some internal process. If there is a way for behavior to
> > affect it, any perception may be brought to the state momentarily
> > specified by higher levels and then be maintained in that state against
> > unpredictable disturbances. In a hierarchy of control systems, higher
> > levels adjust the goals of lower levels as their means of approaching
> > their own goals set by still-higher systems. This has important
> > consequences for any proposed external control of an autonomous living
> > control system (organism). At the highest level, reference values
> > (goals) are set by heredity or adaptive processes." [1] wikipedia
>
> > There is a site with resources and neat little intro/walkthrough athttp://www.pctweb.org/whatis/whatispct.html
>
> > And another puzzle piece I find interesting is in complex systems:
>
> > "Complex adaptive systems are special cases of complex systems. They are
> > complex in that they are dynamic networks of interactions and
> > relationships not aggregations of static entities. They are adaptive in
> > that their individual and collective behaviour changes as a result of
> > experience."
>
> > "The term complex adaptive systems, or complexity science, is often used
> > to describe the loosely organized academic field that has grown up
> > around the study of such systems. Complexity science is not a single
> > theory— it encompasses more than one theoretical framework and is highly
> > interdisciplinary, seeking the answers to some fundamental questions
> > about living, adaptable, changeable systems."
> > ...
> > "Examples of complex adaptive systems include the stock market, social
> > insect and ant colonies, the biosphere and the ecosystem, the brain and
> > the immune system, the cell and the developing embryo, manufacturing
> > businesses and any human social group-based endeavour in a cultural and
> > social system such as political parties or communities. There are close
> > relationships between the field of CAS and artificial life. In both
> > areas the principles of emergence and self-organization are very
> > important." [3]
>
> > But the point I find interesting is that stimulus-response behaviorism
> > is an obsolete theory, however I acknowledge it can be very useful (such
> > as boolean logic and symbols in industrial controls or numerous others
> > involving abstraction, control, reliability, communication). Somewhere
> > in here morality, ethics, societal development, nature, biology,
> > chemistry, physics, and many more are implied.
>
> > I think this applies to several of the recent topics here but I seem to
> > be drawn into obscure, subjective or intense language, wonder what that
> > means (anyone, feel free to enlighten).. It is very difficult to
> > translate mental imagery into words, one seems to dissolve the other,
> > either the picture or the words..
>
> > [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_control_theory
> > [2]http://www.pctweb.org/whatis/whatispct.html
> > [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_adaptive_system
>
> > On 6/25/2012 3:05 AM, malcymo wrote:
>
> > > Thanks for the heartmath reterence. I had a brief look and it reminded
> > > me of Yoga techniques which I found extremely useful as a screwed up
> > > teenager.
> > > On Monday, 25 June 2012 07:25:42 UTC+12, Molly wrote:
>
> > >     The heart also responds to all the things you mention. Our physical
> > >     organs and systems all respond to thoughts, feelings and awareness.
> > >     The heartmath institute has done quite a bit of research in this
> > >     regard. Our being (includes physical and all aspects) and experience
> > >     are in dynamic relationship. The become one in paradox.
>
> > >     On Jun 24, 11:22 am, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >      > It is the brain which is essential for experiencing all feelings ,
> > >      > thoughts , and states of awareness. Whatever is experienced has
> > >      > physical basis because without the physical organs, whether it be
> > >      > brain or sense organs , no experience is possible. God abides in
> > >      > matter and guides it by well established laws.
>
> > >      > On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:28 AM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >      > > brain worship is prevalent, but science can't measure mind, or the
> > >      > > effect of thought on experience. Science can measure brain
> > >     function
> > >      > > as neuro-physical biochemisty, but not the complexity of
> > >     thought and
> > >      > > what it means to overall health. There is a state in sleep and
> > >      > > waking, where thought is not required, and indeed, awareness is
> > >      > > enhanced because of it.
>
> > >      > > On Jun 23, 2:35 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >      > >> Man is a physical creature , the only spiritual aspect in him is
> > >      > >> awareness. It is the mind which thinks and mind is physical ,
> > >     cut a
> > >      > >> portion of the brain and thinking will stop , cut another
> > >     portion and
> > >      > >> awareness will be reduced to such a level as to be
> > >     insignificant ,
> > >      > >> and if you kill the brain even awareness which is the spiritual
> > >      > >> aspect in life will be extinguished. The fact is that Spirit
> > >     pervades
> > >      > >> throughout matter and an individuality might cease to be , yet
> > >     the One
> > >      > >> Spirit which is eternal and immortal remains unchanged.
>
> > >      > >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > >     wrote:
> > >      > >> > Mind is a non physical organ, like ego or our metaphorical
> > >     heart (the
> > >      > >> > one what contains our emotions.) It's kind of like asking if
> > >     people
> > >      > >> > in different climates have different gall bladders because
> > >     of the
> > >      > >> > climate. At some point in our development, because the human
> > >     being is
> > >      > >> > adaptive and resilient, it is possible to find a harmonious
> > >     life with
> > >      > >> > all systems communicating and functioning together. We call
> > >     this
> > >      > >> > optimal health. And, at some point in our development, we may
> > >      > >> > discover that the harmony of our being is more a reflection
> > >     of our
> > >      > >> > internal environment than external and that our lives are
> > >     lived from
> > >      > >> > inside out. Of course, not everyone comes to this
> > >     realization, and
> > >      > >> > continue throughout their lives to look for external causes
> > >     for their
> > >      > >> > problems or discomfort. Whatever our philosophy, the quality
> > >     of our
> > >      > >> > lives can dramatically change for the better is we look
> > >     within for the
> > >      > >> > answers. Our mind thinks. We can live and breathe without
> > >     thinking.
> > >      > >> > Yet thinking is an important aspect of life, and one that
> > >     directly
> > >      > >> > effects the quality of our lives.
>
> > >      > >> > On Jun 23, 12:06 pm, "pol.science kid"
> > >     <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >      > >> >> I wanted to find out about this Chaz guy you were talking
> > >     about... so
> > >      > >> >> i was going through some really old posts.. but couldnt go
> > >     really far
> > >      > >> >> back.. only till 2007... when was ME created? who started
> > >     it? When you
> > >      > >> >> have a look..there are sooo many topics covered..its so
> > >     exiting..
> > >      > >> >> though i thought i saw some homophobic posts... but
> > >     seriously.. the
> > >      > >> >> range is so wide.. and there were so many members actively
> > >      > >> >> engaging ... my own old posts seemed dumb to me.. i guess
> > >     they still
> > >      > >> >> are.. But its remarkable the range of this forum..im gla i
> > >     joined it..
> > >      > >> >> one can learn a lot.... also ..do you guys think..different
> > >     climate
> > >      > >> >> zones affect the nature of people?..i mean more than the
> > >     fact that
> > >      > >> >> environment affects culture which affects to some degree human
> > >      > >> >> nature(or at least superficial responses.).. are people in
> > >     temperate
> > >      > >> >> areas different in their mind than people from tropical sultry
> > >      > >> >> areas...
>
> > >      > >> >> On Jun 22, 5:02 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >      > >> >> > I read Barbara Ward's "The Rich Nations and the Poor
> > >     Nations" in the
> > >      > >> >> > early '60's when my curiousity led me
>
> ...
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