There is no doubt that the nature of peoples are affected by environment.
When the Australian Sugar Companies came to Fiji they had a great deal of difficulty staffing their enterprise. The Fijian, having lived a life in supportive communes with an abundance of shared natural blessings just could not grasp the idea of a working week.
The upshot was that the company had to bring their workforce from India.
On Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:06:40 AM UTC+12, pol.science kid wrote:
I wanted to find out about this Chaz guy you were talking about... so
i was going through some really old posts.. but couldnt go really far
back.. only till 2007... when was ME created? who started it? When you
have a look..there are sooo many topics covered..its so exiting..
though i thought i saw some homophobic posts... but seriously.. the
range is so wide.. and there were so many members actively
engaging ... my own old posts seemed dumb to me.. i guess they still
are.. But its remarkable the range of this forum..im gla i joined it..
one can learn a lot.... also ..do you guys think..different climate
zones affect the nature of people?..i mean more than the fact that
environment affects culture which affects to some degree human
nature(or at least superficial responses.).. are people in temperate
areas different in their mind than people from tropical sultry
areas...
On Jun 22, 5:02 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I read Barbara Ward's "The Rich Nations and the Poor Nations" in the
> early '60's when my curiousity led me beyond liberal arts- also
> Carson's "The Silent Spring", and several books on WWII. 60 years
> later- and where are we?
>
> On Jun 19, 8:44 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > My point above, I think, is that what appears very complex may have
> > points of simplexity where we can see the moral action.
>
> > On Jun 20, 2:41 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I was attracted in to have a go at new google groups - utterly
> > > unspeakable. These moral issues form the core of my new book (80%
> > > done). Underlying the moral maze is the issue of frames of reference
> > > - most famously paradigms, though the Greeks knew. You can usually
> > > make several powerful arguments about anything. You can't really
> > > decide between the arguments because the root metaphors are different
> > > and incommensurable. The following were examples, exhausting if not
> > > exhaustive:
>
> > > PARADIGM (disciplinary matrices) KUHN 1970; BURRELL & MORGAN 1979
> > > PICTURE THEORY OF MEANING WITTGENSTEIN1922
> > > LANGUAGE GAMES WITTGENSTEIN 1958
> > > MULTIPLE REALITIES JAMES1911
> > > ALTERNATE REALITIES CASTANEDA 1970; 1974
> > > LANGUAGE STRUCTURES WHORF 1956
> > > PROBLEMATICS ALTHUSSER 1969; BACHELARD 1949
> > > INTERNALLY CONFLICTING WORLD VIEWS PIRSIG 1976
> > > WORLD HYPOTHESES PEPPER 1942; 1966
> > > DREAM WORLDS (multiple frameworks) FEYERABEND 1975
> > > EVALUATING THE RATIONALITIES OF SOCIAL ACTION AND ACTION SYSTEMS
> > > (instrumental v life-world rationalities) HABERMAS 1984
> > > AN INSURRECTION OF LOCAL KNOWLEDGES IN A WEB OF POWER KNOWLEDGE
> > > FOUCAULT 1977; 1980
> > > MODAL LOGICS, RELATIVITIES LEWIS 1926; 1929; 1946: MOSER 1989
> > > SPECULATIVE PHILOSOPHY WHITEHEAD 1969
> > > METAPHOR MORGAN 1986
> > > TWO DIRECTIONAL TEXT AND RETRO-VISION BURRELL 1997
>
> > > A classic example was held to be Newton's mechanics and Einstein's
> > > relativity and quantum theory. Very dense work by Snell and Ludvig
> > > disproves this IMHO. I take a similar view and believe the problem is
> > > we work in the ready-to-hand and don't get down deep enough to know
> > > what we are talking about. English Law does not allow the cabin boy
> > > to be eaten to survive when all else is lost - you have to give him
> > > the same shake of the dice everyone else gets.
>
> > > Bankers and others are always telling us they are worth their massive
> > > thefts. There arguments relies on many frames of reference. In short
> > > argument, I merely note they are 'responsible' for profits and never
> > > losses. I believe it would be moral to work out what they have lost
> > > (some estimates at $39 trillion in the US) and take it off all bankers
> > > since 1970. Such clawback is in line with performance related pay
> > > they claim to believe in.
>
> > > On Jun 20, 12:53 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I know I've been plenty tired lately - like Madeline Kahn in Blazing
> > > > Saddles: http://youtu.be/Uai7M4RpoLU
>
> > > > On Jun 19, 6:35 pm, malcymo <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Do you think tired?
>
> > > > > I'm not so sure, certainly disinterested, apathetic and lazy minded; unless
> > > > > one is a fanatic.
> > > > > It would seem that the silent majority can put up with a great deal before
> > > > > they are spurred into action. It took attrocious Victorian exploitation to
> > > > > create the socialist movement.
>
> > > > > Six days was an attempt at a bit of imaginative humour, really.
>
> > > > > On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:54:12 PM UTC+12, rigsy03 wrote:
> > > > > > Why blame God? Seems to me the human race has been/is "tired".
>
> > > > > > On Jun 19, 1:04 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > True, God must have been a bit tired when he came up with the
> > > > > > > learning-to-write trait. :)
>
> > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 9:23 PM, malcymo <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Yes Gabby,
>
> > > > > > > > The human conditioning that lies with us on the blank table: our
> > > > > > > > evolutionary successful traits.Things that we can just do like learn
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > talk. Not the hard things like learn to write.
>
> > > > > > > > On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:48:07 PM UTC+12, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> Yes, I think I know what you are aiming at. That's why I have been
> > > > > > saying
> > > > > > > >> time and time again that the blank table theory on which you put or
> > > > > > take
> > > > > > > >> away the food for development is an unuseful construct. Even if it
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > >> four legs, it still doesn't walk, so to speak. What I'd like to raise
> > > > > > > >> awareness for is that human conditioning starts before the little
> > > > > > human
> > > > > > > >> lies on the table to be told and shown what is good and what is bad.
> > > > > > In
> > > > > > > >> that sense I'd agree that there is something "natural" in morality.
>
> > > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 4:00 PM, pol.science kid wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >>> so when you say 'the human condition makes me human'... the fact of
> > > > > > > >>> being human makes me human.?... and the conditions that be inform
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > >>> morality... now taking this and putting it on the dude from my
> > > > > > book... so
> > > > > > > >>> it will absolve him of any amoral or immoral calls he takes... now i
> > > > > > > >>> suppose this was the stand i was driving at... but i cant get
> > > > > > something in
> > > > > > > >>> my mind clear yet... i find somehow.. different the two worlds..
> > > > > > korea and
> > > > > > > >>> the Eusa... although the eusa has been formed after the
> > > > > > 'apocalypse'... see
> > > > > > > >>> they can make themselves yet... their history of horror might inform
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > > >>> 'morality or ethics'.. but then their life and experience will add
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >>> it...their instincts will still have primacy(i have my questions
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > >>> instincts still though)... i dont see no 'evil overlord'... now if
> > > > > > some one
> > > > > > > >>> starts form blank in a scenario(the korean camp)... where they are
> > > > > > > >>> conditioned by reward and punishment..quite different form what we
> > > > > > say our
> > > > > > > >>> normal world gives.. where.. there are no bonds of sympathy... or
> > > > > > empathy..
> > > > > > > >>> where causing the death of your kin is normal... i want to ask...
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >>> know.. will the insticts of this person know.. how would right and
> > > > > > wrong
> > > > > > > >>> be.. what would be 'natural'.. i cant help but think there is
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > > >>> 'natural' in morality..and 'good'..what would be 'good' for those
> > > > > > born in
> > > > > > > >>> camps... wouldnt this person be different from people who came to
> > > > > > camp...
> > > > > > > >>> maybe because they have a recollection of what life can be ...
> > > > > > although
> > > > > > > >>> even civil life in North korea is very much subject to
> > > > > > control....this is
> > > > > > > >>> turning out to be a long winded thing.... but i think you may get my
> > > > > > > >>> jist....
>
> > > > > > > >>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >>>> Like James says, it's a familiar story. I don't think one needs to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > >>>> read all the books on the subject to be able to recognize a
> > > > > > universal
> > > > > > > >>>> pattern. How I relate to the world is geared by the human condition
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >>>> made me human and where I am drawing connections I am doing the
> > > > > > > >>>> conditioning myself. Pinpointing high and low morale on an
> > > > > > evolutionary map
> > > > > > > >>>> seems dumb in this light. My being a lion makes perfect sense at
> > > > > > one time
> > > > > > > >>>> but I expect you to treat me as a human nevertheless. That's how I
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > >>>> approach the fear of losing history, historical knowledge and the
> > > > > > > >>>> forgetting of the morals evolved thereof. Assessing independently
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >>>> judgement is a much more pleasant state of mind, I understand. :)
>
> > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53 PM, pol.science kid wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >>>>> Uh.. since i didnt read the book ..i cant reeally say what the
> > > > > > author
> > > > > > > >>>>> intends... but why i brought it up was to think about the
> > > > > > conditioning of
> > > > > > > >>>>> human beings in a very different environment.. and what kinds of
> > > > > > humans it
> > > > > > > >>>>> effects... and i was wondering whether the moral idea of a human
> > > > > > being is
> > > > > > > >>>>> universal... i read the blog you gave the link to..thanks..its a
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > > >>>>> interesting book.. looking forward to read it... i guess its
> > > > > > similar in the
> > > > > > > >>>>> way that there is a loss of history i suppose in forming
> > > > > > standards..sort of
> > > > > > > >>>>> a bleak start... but since i have little idea of what comprised
> > > > > > the world
> > > > > > > >>>>> in the book..i feel unable to draw the connection to my problem...
> > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > >>>>> you could...and forgive my slow uptake but i couldnt exactly place
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >>>>> quote in my post... the man eats lion one... is it a paradox on
> > > > > > mans high
> > > > > > > >>>>> moral being?? ... i am not able to articulate correctly... sorry
> > > > > > for giving
> > > > > > > >>>>> this weird reply..it doesnt quite make sense.. perhaps it will
> > > > > > make sense
> > > > > > > >>>>> in the morning...
>
> > > > > > > >>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 5:53 PM, pol.science kid < wrote:
>
> ...
>
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