Re: Mind's Eye New Google Groups is Dumb,but this not the subject

So then perhaps it is a little like our sun that fuels life (in our
great chain, though we know it can happen otherwise in geothermal vents
& etc). We feel the suns warmth and know it is an immense engine driving
our geosphere but are afforded a moderate solar+geo-climatic period
within which to grow.

Perhaps there are things we cannot know but our entire being responds to
like the scent of water in a desert (as some creatures do), we don't
know why or how but it is nonetheless. Those things I understand, and
that our introspective lens is not trapped in a spherical mirror and we
find projection and expansion of the intimate space. That I think is a
partial explanation of spiritual expression, the desire for life to
burst free- as Wittgenstein would frame it (I think).

On 6/24/2012 12:23 PM, RP Singh wrote:
> The One Spirit is absolute , it is not increased by addition of
> creatures nor decreased by their demise.
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:05 AM, James<ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What you are describing may be a nuanced subject RP, when you say "remains
>> unchanged" regarding the One Spirit does this have the common meaning of
>> change as we would refer to physical things we can manipulate? Is it known
>> or surmised, whether?
>>
>>
>> On 6/23/2012 2:35 PM, RP Singh wrote:
>>>
>>> Man is a physical creature , the only spiritual aspect in him is
>>> awareness. It is the mind which thinks and mind is physical , cut a
>>> portion of the brain and thinking will stop , cut another portion and
>>> awareness will be reduced to such a level as to be insignificant ,
>>> and if you kill the brain even awareness which is the spiritual
>>> aspect in life will be extinguished. The fact is that Spirit pervades
>>> throughout matter and an individuality might cease to be , yet the One
>>> Spirit which is eternal and immortal remains unchanged.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Molly<mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mind is a non physical organ, like ego or our metaphorical heart (the
>>>> one what contains our emotions.) It's kind of like asking if people
>>>> in different climates have different gall bladders because of the
>>>> climate. At some point in our development, because the human being is
>>>> adaptive and resilient, it is possible to find a harmonious life with
>>>> all systems communicating and functioning together. We call this
>>>> optimal health. And, at some point in our development, we may
>>>> discover that the harmony of our being is more a reflection of our
>>>> internal environment than external and that our lives are lived from
>>>> inside out. Of course, not everyone comes to this realization, and
>>>> continue throughout their lives to look for external causes for their
>>>> problems or discomfort. Whatever our philosophy, the quality of our
>>>> lives can dramatically change for the better is we look within for the
>>>> answers. Our mind thinks. We can live and breathe without thinking.
>>>> Yet thinking is an important aspect of life, and one that directly
>>>> effects the quality of our lives.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 23, 12:06 pm, "pol.science kid"<r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to find out about this Chaz guy you were talking about... so
>>>>> i was going through some really old posts.. but couldnt go really far
>>>>> back.. only till 2007... when was ME created? who started it? When you
>>>>> have a look..there are sooo many topics covered..its so exiting..
>>>>> though i thought i saw some homophobic posts... but seriously.. the
>>>>> range is so wide.. and there were so many members actively
>>>>> engaging ... my own old posts seemed dumb to me.. i guess they still
>>>>> are.. But its remarkable the range of this forum..im gla i joined it..
>>>>> one can learn a lot.... also ..do you guys think..different climate
>>>>> zones affect the nature of people?..i mean more than the fact that
>>>>> environment affects culture which affects to some degree human
>>>>> nature(or at least superficial responses.).. are people in temperate
>>>>> areas different in their mind than people from tropical sultry
>>>>> areas...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 22, 5:02 pm, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I read Barbara Ward's "The Rich Nations and the Poor Nations" in the
>>>>>> early '60's when my curiousity led me beyond liberal arts- also
>>>>>> Carson's "The Silent Spring", and several books on WWII. 60 years
>>>>>> later- and where are we?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:44 pm, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point above, I think, is that what appears very complex may have
>>>>>>> points of simplexity where we can see the moral action.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2:41 am, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was attracted in to have a go at new google groups - utterly
>>>>>>>> unspeakable. These moral issues form the core of my new book (80%
>>>>>>>> done). Underlying the moral maze is the issue of frames of reference
>>>>>>>> - most famously paradigms, though the Greeks knew. You can usually
>>>>>>>> make several powerful arguments about anything. You can't really
>>>>>>>> decide between the arguments because the root metaphors are different
>>>>>>>> and incommensurable. The following were examples, exhausting if not
>>>>>>>> exhaustive:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PARADIGM (disciplinary matrices) KUHN 1970; BURRELL& MORGAN
>>>>>>>> 1979
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PICTURE THEORY OF MEANING WITTGENSTEIN1922
>>>>>>>> LANGUAGE GAMES WITTGENSTEIN 1958
>>>>>>>> MULTIPLE REALITIES JAMES1911
>>>>>>>> ALTERNATE REALITIES CASTANEDA 1970; 1974
>>>>>>>> LANGUAGE STRUCTURES WHORF 1956
>>>>>>>> PROBLEMATICS ALTHUSSER 1969; BACHELARD 1949
>>>>>>>> INTERNALLY CONFLICTING WORLD VIEWS PIRSIG 1976
>>>>>>>> WORLD HYPOTHESES PEPPER 1942; 1966
>>>>>>>> DREAM WORLDS (multiple frameworks) FEYERABEND 1975
>>>>>>>> EVALUATING THE RATIONALITIES OF SOCIAL ACTION AND ACTION SYSTEMS
>>>>>>>> (instrumental v life-world rationalities) HABERMAS 1984
>>>>>>>> AN INSURRECTION OF LOCAL KNOWLEDGES IN A WEB OF POWER KNOWLEDGE
>>>>>>>> FOUCAULT 1977; 1980
>>>>>>>> MODAL LOGICS, RELATIVITIES LEWIS 1926; 1929; 1946: MOSER 1989
>>>>>>>> SPECULATIVE PHILOSOPHY WHITEHEAD 1969
>>>>>>>> METAPHOR MORGAN 1986
>>>>>>>> TWO DIRECTIONAL TEXT AND RETRO-VISION BURRELL 1997
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A classic example was held to be Newton's mechanics and Einstein's
>>>>>>>> relativity and quantum theory. Very dense work by Snell and Ludvig
>>>>>>>> disproves this IMHO. I take a similar view and believe the problem
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> we work in the ready-to-hand and don't get down deep enough to know
>>>>>>>> what we are talking about. English Law does not allow the cabin boy
>>>>>>>> to be eaten to survive when all else is lost - you have to give him
>>>>>>>> the same shake of the dice everyone else gets.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bankers and others are always telling us they are worth their massive
>>>>>>>> thefts. There arguments relies on many frames of reference. In
>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>> argument, I merely note they are 'responsible' for profits and never
>>>>>>>> losses. I believe it would be moral to work out what they have lost
>>>>>>>> (some estimates at $39 trillion in the US) and take it off all
>>>>>>>> bankers
>>>>>>>> since 1970. Such clawback is in line with performance related pay
>>>>>>>> they claim to believe in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 12:53 am, Molly<mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know I've been plenty tired lately - like Madeline Kahn in Blazing
>>>>>>>>> Saddles: http://youtu.be/Uai7M4RpoLU
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 6:35 pm, malcymo<malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you think tired?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not so sure, certainly disinterested, apathetic and lazy
>>>>>>>>>> minded; unless
>>>>>>>>>> one is a fanatic.
>>>>>>>>>> It would seem that the silent majority can put up with a great deal
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> they are spurred into action. It took attrocious Victorian
>>>>>>>>>> exploitation to
>>>>>>>>>> create the socialist movement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Six days was an attempt at a bit of imaginative humour, really.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:54:12 PM UTC+12, rigsy03 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why blame God? Seems to me the human race has been/is "tired".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 1:04 am, gabbydott<gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> True, God must have been a bit tired when he came up with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> learning-to-write trait. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 9:23 PM, malcymo<malc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Gabby,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The human conditioning that lies with us on the blank table: our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolutionary successful traits.Things that we can just do like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk. Not the hard things like learn to write.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:48:07 PM UTC+12, gabbydott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think I know what you are aiming at. That's why I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time and time again that the blank table theory on which you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put or
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away the food for development is an unuseful construct. Even if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> four legs, it still doesn't walk, so to speak. What I'd like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness for is that human conditioning starts before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> human
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lies on the table to be told and shown what is good and what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that sense I'd agree that there is something "natural" in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> morality.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 4:00 PM, pol.science kid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so when you say 'the human condition makes me human'... the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being human makes me human.?... and the conditions that be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inform
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> morality... now taking this and putting it on the dude from my
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> book... so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it will absolve him of any amoral or immoral calls he takes...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose this was the stand i was driving at... but i cant get
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> something in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind clear yet... i find somehow.. different the two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worlds..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> korea and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Eusa... although the eusa has been formed after the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 'apocalypse'... see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can make themselves yet... their history of horror might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inform
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'morality or ethics'.. but then their life and experience will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it...their instincts will still have primacy(i have my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instincts still though)... i dont see no 'evil overlord'...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now if
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> some one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starts form blank in a scenario(the korean camp)... where they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditioned by reward and punishment..quite different form
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what we
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> say our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal world gives.. where.. there are no bonds of sympathy...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> empathy..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where causing the death of your kin is normal... i want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know.. will the insticts of this person know.. how would right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be.. what would be 'natural'.. i cant help but think there is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'natural' in morality..and 'good'..what would be 'good' for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> born in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camps... wouldnt this person be different from people who came
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> camp...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe because they have a recollection of what life can be ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> although
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even civil life in North korea is very much subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> control....this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turning out to be a long winded thing.... but i think you may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jist....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM, gabbydott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like James says, it's a familiar story. I don't think one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read all the books on the subject to be able to recognize a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> universal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pattern. How I relate to the world is geared by the human
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condition
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made me human and where I am drawing connections I am doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditioning myself. Pinpointing high and low morale on an
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> evolutionary map
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems dumb in this light. My being a lion makes perfect sense
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> one time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I expect you to treat me as a human nevertheless. That's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approach the fear of losing history, historical knowledge and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgetting of the morals evolved thereof. Assessing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgement is a much more pleasant state of mind, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53 PM, pol.science kid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uh.. since i didnt read the book ..i cant reeally say what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> author
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intends... but why i brought it up was to think about the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> conditioning of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> read more »
>>
>>