Re: Mind's Eye New Google Groups is Dumb,but this not the subject

Yes- the "code" is learned but there is still some debate/interest
about genetic inheritance, womb "experience", early childhood.
Somewhere in the past I read that our emotional natures were fixed
fairly early in life- though we do learn how to adapt to our culture
and society. Frankly, the moral code of humanity is pretty
hypocritical in many respects.

On Jul 2, 8:01 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Allan I must disagree with this.
>
> There is no built in moral code, this is learnt.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 30 June 2012 07:13:05 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote:
> > no Mal I really don't buy the blank table concept,,   there is the built
> > in moral code which all souls know and  understand,, evolutionary traits
> > are written in.. one thing it is not is blank,,  accessing this information
> > like reading and writing is not that difficult,  other than the spiritual
> > law of do no harm.  the rest of the information is difficult to access.
> > Allan
> > On Jun 18, 2012 9:23 PM, "malcymo" <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Yes Gabby,
>
> >> The human conditioning that lies with us on the blank table: our
> >> evolutionary successful traits.Things that we can just do like learn to
> >> talk. Not the hard things like learn to write.
>
> >> On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:48:07 PM UTC+12, gabbydott wrote:
>
> >>> Yes, I think I know what you are aiming at. That's why I have been
> >>> saying time and time again that the blank table theory on which you put
> >>> or take away the food for development is an unuseful construct. Even if
> >>> it has four legs, it still doesn't walk, so to speak. What I'd like to
> >>> raise awareness for is that human conditioning starts before the little
> >>> human lies on the table to be told and shown what is good and what is bad.
> >>> In that sense I'd agree that there is something "natural" in morality.
>
> >>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 4:00 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> >>>> so when you say 'the human condition makes me human'... the fact of
> >>>> being human makes me human.?...  and the conditions that be inform my
> >>>> morality... now taking this and putting it on the dude from my book... so
> >>>> it will absolve him of any amoral or immoral calls he takes... now i
> >>>> suppose this was the stand i was driving at... but i cant get something in
> >>>> my mind clear yet... i find somehow.. different the two worlds.. korea and
> >>>> the Eusa... although the eusa has been formed after the 'apocalypse'... see
> >>>> they can make themselves yet... their history of horror might inform their
> >>>> 'morality or ethics'.. but then their life and experience will add to
> >>>> it...their instincts will still have primacy(i have my questions about
> >>>> instincts still though)... i dont see no 'evil overlord'... now if some one
> >>>> starts form blank in a scenario(the korean camp)... where they are
> >>>> conditioned by reward and punishment..quite different form what we say our
> >>>> normal world gives.. where.. there are no bonds of sympathy... or empathy..
> >>>> where causing the death of your kin is normal... i want to ask... and
> >>>> know.. will the insticts of this person know.. how would right and wrong
> >>>> be.. what would be 'natural'.. i cant help but think there is something
> >>>> 'natural' in morality..and 'good'..what would be 'good' for those born in
> >>>> camps... wouldnt this person be different from people who came to camp...
> >>>> maybe because they have a recollection of what life can be ... although
> >>>> even civil life in North korea is very much subject to control....this is
> >>>> turning out to be a long winded thing.... but i think you may get my
> >>>> jist....
>
> >>>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM, gabbydott  wrote:
>
> >>>>> Like James says, it's a familiar story. I don't think one needs to
> >>>>> have read all the books on the subject to be able to recognize a universal
> >>>>> pattern. How I relate to the world is geared by the human condition that
> >>>>> made me human and where I am drawing connections I am doing the
> >>>>> conditioning myself. Pinpointing high and low morale on an evolutionary map
> >>>>> seems dumb in this light. My being a lion makes perfect sense at one time
> >>>>> but I expect you to treat me as a human nevertheless. That's how I would
> >>>>> approach the fear of losing history, historical knowledge and the
> >>>>> forgetting of the morals evolved  thereof. Assessing independently of
> >>>>> judgement is a much more pleasant state of mind, I understand. :)
>
> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Uh.. since i didnt read the book ..i cant reeally say what the author
> >>>>>> intends... but why i brought it up was to think about the conditioning of
> >>>>>> human beings in a very different environment.. and what kinds of humans it
> >>>>>> effects... and i was wondering whether the moral idea of a human being is
> >>>>>> universal... i read the blog you gave the link to..thanks..its a very
> >>>>>> interesting book.. looking forward to read it... i guess its similar in the
> >>>>>> way that there is a loss of history i suppose in forming standards..sort of
> >>>>>> a bleak start... but since i have little idea of what comprised the world
> >>>>>> in the book..i feel unable to draw the connection to my problem... perhaps
> >>>>>> you could...and forgive my slow uptake but i couldnt exactly place the
> >>>>>> quote in my post... the man eats lion one... is it a paradox on mans high
> >>>>>> moral being?? ... i am not able to articulate correctly... sorry for giving
> >>>>>> this weird reply..it doesnt quite make sense.. perhaps it will make sense
> >>>>>> in the morning...
>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 5:53 PM, pol.science kid < wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> oh ..um..i just re read my post... in my post.. the line with china
> >>>>>>> and cold war... i meant to ask what was responsible for  N korea turning
> >>>>>>> that way.. sorry for eating the line.. was a bit tipsy... and ill get back
> >>>>>>> to you on your reply soon...
>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 4:49 PM, gabbydott < wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> Are you saying that the author of this book is suggesting that only
> >>>>>>>> moral order has turned human life upside down and left to right
> >>>>>>>> compared to how other worlds conceive of theirs? As in the quotation of the
> >>>>>>>> preface of another book dealing with this subject which is commented on
> >>>>>>>> here  http://gerryco23.wordpress.**com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/<http://gerryco23.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/>
> >>>>>>>> ** :
> >>>>>>>> Jesus said: Blessed the lion that the man will devour, and the lion
> >>>>>>>> will become man. And loathsome is the man that the lion will devour, and
> >>>>>>>> the lion will become man.
> >>>>>>>> I would argue that this is too flat an argumantation. Need to do
> >>>>>>>> something now. Sorry, that I can't expand on it now.
>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 8:21 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> I was reading and suddenly i remembered a horrifying detail...
> >>>>>>>>> just recently this book has been out... Escape from camp14.. i forget the
> >>>>>>>>> authors name.. i am wondering if i have already made a post on this.. have
> >>>>>>>>> i...? ..if yes.. sorry for the repetition.. if no.. i just cant get it out
> >>>>>>>>> of my head.. the account of this horrid life in North Korea... the Cold
> >>>>>>>>> War.. Russia.. China... ? The Western World even...Its strange the people
> >>>>>>>>> living under a fear regime for so long... brings images of 1984(book)...
> >>>>>>>>> But my issue here is a different one... I didnt read the book.. cos i dont
> >>>>>>>>> have it.. but i read about it... maybe you guys can google it and see.. i
> >>>>>>>>> am too lazy to post a link here :)...  But .this..guy who escapes.. he was
> >>>>>>>>> born in the camp... and one thing he reveals is that he caused the death of
> >>>>>>>>> his mother, and siblings... or both parents.. and some relatives.. to gain
> >>>>>>>>> favor with the authorities... somethng like that is pretty shocking to
> >>>>>>>>> us... but.. how would you judge this man.. maybe we dont have a right to
> >>>>>>>>> judge him..but just hypothetically to have a discussion.. there is no
> >>>>>>>>> morality here is there... now this man.. doesnt he seem to be comlpetely
> >>>>>>>>> amoral... not immoral... maybe immoral to us... the review said in the book
> >>>>>>>>> this man shows no compunction for what he did..i am just trying to concieve
> >>>>>>>>> of these worlds...where... being human is comletely different... what
> >>>>>>>>> informs these worlds... the people who comprise it... ?..what say you guys..
>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> EverComing
>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> EverComing
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> EverComing- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -