Re: Mind's Eye Re: Matter

All conscious thought processes and deliberations are the
manifestation of chemical activity in the physical brain , it is the
neural activity in the brain which appear as the will with its
consequent deliberations. I deliberate whether to open my hand or not
and ultimately choose the one , but all this process is preceded by
neural activity and the conscious deliberations and act are just the
manifestation of this. So ultimately I am bound by myself according to
my nature.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:07 PM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am feeling thirsty and I can choose to quench my thirst or delay it
> for some time , but why do I choose one and not the other ---simple, I
> have to follow God's will as if it was my choice i.e. free choice.
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Lee Douglas <leerevdouglas@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Indeed! Or I am thirsty and choose to get a drink later, or it is time for
>> lunch but I choose to finish composing this one email before I choose to go
>> eat.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 12:48:05 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>>
>>> I feel thirsty and go and take a glass of water , it is time for lunch
>>> and I go and have it --- this is freedom of choice ,consciously
>>> knowing and acting out the act.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > You speak as if we had no choice, and that we simply obey the programing
>>> > of
>>> > our bodies.
>>> >
>>> > I do get what you mean, I disagree, I think you wrong.
>>> >
>>> > We are again just going around in circles you and I RP, we must endevour
>>> > to
>>> > brake it.
>>> >
>>> > So in an attempt at just that let me try it this way.
>>> >
>>> > Let us stick to the machine analogy.
>>> >
>>> > If we humans are simply biological machines, what machine are we akin
>>> > to?
>>> >
>>> > Clockwork?
>>> >
>>> > With a clock work device you have not many veriables, and things must be
>>> > wound up in order for the machin to work, a period of winding, working
>>> > and
>>> > winding again must occour for the mahcine to work.
>>> > So unlike a clockwork machine then.
>>> >
>>> > Electirical.
>>> > In an electrical machine you need power source, and input settings for
>>> > an
>>> > external force to imput commands, or changes.
>>> > So not unlike but not too similar to electric machines then.
>>> >
>>> > Compturised machines.
>>> > The heart and soul of the computerised machine is the cpu, the memory
>>> > and
>>> > the programing.
>>> > So maybe we are more akin to the computerised machine that the other
>>> > two?
>>> >
>>> > Or may be a little of each?
>>> >
>>> > We can say that the human machine is a self diagnosing, self reparing
>>> > machine. But all of this is down to the programing. We have some at
>>> > birth,
>>> > let us call this predisposition, but the majority of it is picked up as
>>> > we
>>> > grow in a particular enviroment, but the more complex the machine the
>>> > more
>>> > complex the programing needs to be. As we are constantly adding to our
>>> > programing via external enviromental influences, there needs be a way to
>>> > sort the dross from the gold. Indeed there is, our programing over the
>>> > eons
>>> > has developed a 'conciousness'. This conciousness is what we use to
>>> > sotrt
>>> > and refine our programing, and conciouness being what it is, is capable
>>> > deciding from distinct and differant possibilites, this ability then is
>>> > freedom of choice. Our conciouness uses many tools in which to do this,
>>> > morality and will amongst them, and of course it also takes note of any
>>> > predispositions.
>>> >
>>> > We may be machines but we are conciouse, and it is this in which we find
>>> > our
>>> > Self's burried.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 11:46:19 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> What you think and do is you as a organism that is responsible , but
>>> >> you the organism are made of matter and it is from matter that all
>>> >> enterprise arise , as such all your actions arise from the working of
>>> >> your body and brain which also reacts to the outside environment.
>>> >> Through CBT it is the organism which is repairing itself and you are
>>> >> the puppet in the hands of this material body. You are the Front but
>>> >> are made to feel that you are all in all.
>>> >> Thoughts and actions arise from bio-chemical activity and the self is
>>> >> under the impression that he is free.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Okay there are two points on this.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yes of course genetic predisposition exists, but you make a mistake
>>> >> > when
>>> >> > you
>>> >> > claim the strengh of it. It could be that a man is predisposed to
>>> >> > cancer.
>>> >> > What this means is it is more likely that as he gets older his chance
>>> >> > of
>>> >> > some cells becomeing cancerous is higher then the man who has no
>>> >> > genetic
>>> >> > predisposition towards cancer; what it is not, is a 100% garentee.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > In a similar vein it may be that I am predisposed towards my choice
>>> >> > in
>>> >> > child
>>> >> > rearing, but this is not a garentee that I will never smack my child.
>>> >> > Genetic predisposition, not genetic garentee.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Secondly.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yes all thought arises as a concequences of the mechanics of the
>>> >> > brain,
>>> >> > how
>>> >> > can it be otherwise. Yet what CBT does and meditaion and a hell of a
>>> >> > lot of
>>> >> > mind exsercises is to elicit a physical change within the brain to
>>> >> > complete
>>> >> > a physcolgical change. You have a circular effect happing. Thought
>>> >> > is
>>> >> > made
>>> >> > by the mechanics of the brain, we know that damage to the brain
>>> >> > causes
>>> >> > changes to the pyscology of the human. Yet the tought 'I wish to
>>> >> > change'
>>> >> > can make a physical change to the brain. Change to will in
>>> >> > accordance
>>> >> > with
>>> >> > will.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012 17:12:33 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Whatever we think and whatever we do arises as a consequence of
>>> >> >> neural
>>> >> >> activity which precede the thought processes or rather the thought
>>> >> >> processes are a projection of this activity. When we are offered
>>> >> >> psycho-therapy our brain reacts to it first and the thought process
>>> >> >> is
>>> >> >> just the consequence , the efforts we make are a result of brain
>>> >> >> activity which precede them. What are we without our genes ? just
>>> >> >> nothing! What are we without the universe ? again nothing !
>>> >> >> Predisposition is just that, an inclination, without which there is
>>> >> >> no
>>> >> >> beginning. You have to start from somewhere and you don't do that
>>> >> >> from
>>> >> >> scratch , you have your predisposition.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> > Sorry RP, I have to call bullshit on this as you know I would.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > You talk about genetic predisposition and envirmental learning as
>>> >> >> > if
>>> >> >> > these
>>> >> >> > are rock solid. Let us for just a second remember the power of
>>> >> >> > words
>>> >> >> > and
>>> >> >> > say that a predispostion is exaclty that, not a hard solid rule
>>> >> >> > and
>>> >> >> > learnt
>>> >> >> > behavour can of course be unlearnt.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > When a man goes to a mind doctor for reasons of what ever meantl
>>> >> >> > health
>>> >> >> > problems plauge him, he may be offerd CBT as an aid to getting his
>>> >> >> > head
>>> >> >> > back
>>> >> >> > in order. How is it that these technichs work if we are really
>>> >> >> > all
>>> >> >> > fully
>>> >> >> > bound and fetterd by our genes and our enviroment?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012 11:54:12 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> What I would do is limited to my nature and as Lee and I are made
>>> >> >> >> up
>>> >> >> >> differently his choice would be different , but that would be in
>>> >> >> >> line
>>> >> >> >> with the choice towards which he is genetically predisposed or
>>> >> >> >> environmentally learned. What I mean is that will is a
>>> >> >> >> consequence
>>> >> >> >> of
>>> >> >> >> thought processes which end up in making a choice.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 3:22 PM, AmandaRheen
>>> >> >> >> <Machiav...@gmail.com>
>>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > What I understand you to be saying is merely that free will is
>>> >> >> >> > limited
>>> >> >> >> > to
>>> >> >> >> > the number of possible choices that are available to the
>>> >> >> >> > organism
>>> >> >> >> > within
>>> >> >> >> > the
>>> >> >> >> > total capacities of the material matter of the organism. The
>>> >> >> >> > part
>>> >> >> >> > where
>>> >> >> >> > you
>>> >> >> >> > stop making sense to me is
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > " If you think that is freedom , then you are really the
>>> >> >> >> > master of yourself. " in context of the example you used with
>>> >> >> >> > Lee.
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > That is "where I would have
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > beaten up a child mercilessly you would not have because you
>>> >> >> >> > are
>>> >> >> >> > not
>>> >> >> >> > free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your enemy ,
>>> >> >> >> > but
>>> >> >> >> > of
>>> >> >> >> > course you would not because your reason would stop you where
>>> >> >> >> > mine
>>> >> >> >> > would not."
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > What does 'if you think that is freedom, the you are really the
>>> >> >> >> > master
>>> >> >> >> > of
>>> >> >> >> > yourself' mean?
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:53:49 PM UTC+10, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> The will to change yourself comes from within you , but those
>>> >> >> >> >> who
>>> >> >> >> >> are
>>> >> >> >> >> ignorant of the intricacies of nature think that they have
>>> >> >> >> >> brought
>>> >> >> >> >> about this change. When you breathe you think that you are
>>> >> >> >> >> freely
>>> >> >> >> >> doing so but the fact is that it is your body which is
>>> >> >> >> >> demanding
>>> >> >> >> >> it.
>>> >> >> >> >> Whether you are controlling your anger or not is in your hands
>>> >> >> >> >> but
>>> >> >> >> >> your decisions arise from the working of your brain which is
>>> >> >> >> >> matter
>>> >> >> >> >> and as such governed by neurological or biological principles.
>>> >> >> >> >> If
>>> >> >> >> >> freedom was real the whole machinery of the universe would
>>> >> >> >> >> have
>>> >> >> >> >> collapsed and there would have been mayhem everywhere , but
>>> >> >> >> >> that
>>> >> >> >> >> is
>>> >> >> >> >> not the case and wherever you look you find harmony within.
>>> >> >> >> >> Whatever
>>> >> >> >> >> a
>>> >> >> >> >> man does it is his nature expressing itself , where I would
>>> >> >> >> >> have
>>> >> >> >> >> beaten up a child mercilessly you would not have because you
>>> >> >> >> >> are
>>> >> >> >> >> not
>>> >> >> >> >> free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your enemy ,
>>> >> >> >> >> but
>>> >> >> >> >> of
>>> >> >> >> >> course you would not because your reason would stop you where
>>> >> >> >> >> mine
>>> >> >> >> >> would not. If you think that is freedom , then you are really
>>> >> >> >> >> the
>>> >> >> >> >> master of yourself.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>

--