Re: Mind's Eye Re: Matter

There is a difference between biological necessities and appetites
which might be defined to be clearer as some think appetites are
necessities.

On Aug 16, 8:13 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ultimately all conscious acts and thought processes are due to neural
> activity in the brain ,which  being material in nature is bound by
> laws.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:11 AM, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That might be right for opening your hand. What about opening up your heart
> > to someone you don`t particularly like, or opening your head to some thought
> > you don`t like or to new ideas that are strange to you you don`t ? Or
> > listening to your instincts and acting on them despite your intellect
> > telling you not to.
>
> > On Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:33:37 PM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:
>
> >> All conscious thought processes and deliberations are the
> >> manifestation of chemical activity in the physical brain , it is the
> >> neural activity in the brain which appear as the will with its
> >> consequent deliberations. I deliberate whether to open my hand or not
> >> and ultimately choose the one , but all this process is preceded by
> >> neural activity and the conscious deliberations and act are just the
> >> manifestation of this. So ultimately I am bound by myself according to
> >> my nature.
>
> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:07 PM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > I am feeling thirsty and I can choose to quench my thirst or delay it
> >> > for some time , but why do I choose one and not the other ---simple, I
> >> > have to follow God's will as if it was my choice i.e. free choice.
>
> >> > On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> Indeed!  Or I am thirsty and choose to get a drink later, or it is time
> >> >> for
> >> >> lunch but I choose to finish composing this one email before I choose
> >> >> to go
> >> >> eat.
>
> >> >> On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 12:48:05 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> >> >>> I feel thirsty and go and take a glass of water , it is time for lunch
> >> >>> and I go and have it --- this is freedom of choice ,consciously
> >> >>> knowing and acting out the act.
>
> >> >>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>> > You speak as if we had no choice, and that we simply obey the
> >> >>> > programing
> >> >>> > of
> >> >>> > our bodies.
>
> >> >>> > I do get what you mean, I disagree, I think you wrong.
>
> >> >>> > We are again just going around in circles you and I RP, we must
> >> >>> > endevour
> >> >>> > to
> >> >>> > brake it.
>
> >> >>> > So in an attempt at just that let me try it this way.
>
> >> >>> > Let us stick to the machine analogy.
>
> >> >>> > If we humans are simply biological machines, what machine are we
> >> >>> > akin
> >> >>> > to?
>
> >> >>> > Clockwork?
>
> >> >>> > With a clock work device you have not many veriables, and things
> >> >>> > must be
> >> >>> > wound up in order for the machin to work, a period of winding,
> >> >>> > working
> >> >>> > and
> >> >>> > winding again must occour for the mahcine to work.
> >> >>> > So unlike a clockwork machine then.
>
> >> >>> > Electirical.
> >> >>> > In an electrical machine you need power source, and input settings
> >> >>> > for
> >> >>> > an
> >> >>> > external force to imput commands, or changes.
> >> >>> > So not unlike but not too similar to electric machines then.
>
> >> >>> > Compturised machines.
> >> >>> > The heart and soul of the computerised machine is the cpu, the
> >> >>> > memory
> >> >>> > and
> >> >>> > the programing.
> >> >>> > So maybe we are more akin to the computerised machine that the other
> >> >>> > two?
>
> >> >>> > Or may be a little of each?
>
> >> >>> > We can say that the human machine is a self diagnosing, self
> >> >>> > reparing
> >> >>> > machine.  But all of this is down to the programing.  We have some
> >> >>> > at
> >> >>> > birth,
> >> >>> > let us call this predisposition, but the majority of it is picked up
> >> >>> > as
> >> >>> > we
> >> >>> > grow in a particular enviroment, but the more complex the machine
> >> >>> > the
> >> >>> > more
> >> >>> > complex the programing needs to be.  As we are constantly adding to
> >> >>> > our
> >> >>> > programing via external enviromental influences, there needs be a
> >> >>> > way to
> >> >>> > sort the dross from the gold.  Indeed there is, our programing over
> >> >>> > the
> >> >>> > eons
> >> >>> > has developed a 'conciousness'.  This conciousness is what we use to
> >> >>> > sotrt
> >> >>> > and refine our programing, and conciouness being what it is, is
> >> >>> > capable
> >> >>> > deciding from distinct and differant possibilites, this ability then
> >> >>> > is
> >> >>> > freedom of choice.  Our conciouness uses many tools in which to do
> >> >>> > this,
> >> >>> > morality and will amongst them, and of course it also takes note of
> >> >>> > any
> >> >>> > predispositions.
>
> >> >>> > We may be machines but we are conciouse, and it is this in which we
> >> >>> > find
> >> >>> > our
> >> >>> > Self's burried.
>
> >> >>> > On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 11:46:19 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> >> >>> >> What you think and do is you as a organism that is responsible ,
> >> >>> >> but
> >> >>> >> you the organism are made of matter and it is from matter that all
> >> >>> >> enterprise arise , as such all your actions arise from the working
> >> >>> >> of
> >> >>> >> your body and brain which also reacts to the outside environment.
> >> >>> >> Through CBT it is the organism which is repairing itself and you
> >> >>> >> are
> >> >>> >> the puppet in the hands of this material body. You are the Front
> >> >>> >> but
> >> >>> >> are made to feel that you are all in all.
> >> >>> >> Thoughts and actions arise from bio-chemical activity and the self
> >> >>> >> is
> >> >>> >> under the impression that he is free.
>
> >> >>> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
> >> >>> >> wrote:
> >> >>> >> > Okay there are two points on this.
>
> >> >>> >> > Yes of course genetic predisposition exists, but you make a
> >> >>> >> > mistake
> >> >>> >> > when
> >> >>> >> > you
> >> >>> >> > claim the strengh of it.  It could be that a man is predisposed
> >> >>> >> > to
> >> >>> >> > cancer.
> >> >>> >> > What this means is it is more likely that as he gets older his
> >> >>> >> > chance
> >> >>> >> > of
> >> >>> >> > some cells becomeing cancerous is higher then the man who has no
> >> >>> >> > genetic
> >> >>> >> > predisposition towards cancer; what it is not, is a 100%
> >> >>> >> > garentee.
>
> >> >>> >> > In a similar vein it may be that I am predisposed towards my
> >> >>> >> > choice
> >> >>> >> > in
> >> >>> >> > child
> >> >>> >> > rearing, but this is not a garentee that I will never smack my
> >> >>> >> > child.
> >> >>> >> > Genetic predisposition, not genetic garentee.
>
> >> >>> >> > Secondly.
>
> >> >>> >> > Yes all thought arises as a concequences of the mechanics of the
> >> >>> >> > brain,
> >> >>> >> > how
> >> >>> >> > can it be otherwise.  Yet what CBT does and meditaion and a hell
> >> >>> >> > of a
> >> >>> >> > lot of
> >> >>> >> > mind exsercises is to elicit a physical change within the brain
> >> >>> >> > to
> >> >>> >> > complete
> >> >>> >> > a physcolgical change.  You have a circular effect happing.
> >> >>> >> > Thought
> >> >>> >> > is
> >> >>> >> > made
> >> >>> >> > by the mechanics of the brain, we know that damage to the brain
> >> >>> >> > causes
> >> >>> >> > changes to the pyscology of the human.  Yet the tought 'I wish to
> >> >>> >> > change'
> >> >>> >> > can make a physical change to the brain.  Change to will in
> >> >>> >> > accordance
> >> >>> >> > with
> >> >>> >> > will.
>
> >> >>> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012 17:12:33 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> >> >>> >> >> Whatever we think and whatever we do arises as a consequence of
> >> >>> >> >> neural
> >> >>> >> >> activity which precede the thought processes or rather the
> >> >>> >> >> thought
> >> >>> >> >> processes are a projection of this activity. When we are offered
> >> >>> >> >> psycho-therapy our brain reacts to it first and the thought
> >> >>> >> >> process
> >> >>> >> >> is
> >> >>> >> >> just the consequence , the efforts we make are a result of brain
> >> >>> >> >> activity which precede  them.  What are we without our genes ?
> >> >>> >> >> just
> >> >>> >> >> nothing!  What are we without the universe ? again nothing !
> >> >>> >> >> Predisposition is just that, an inclination, without which there
> >> >>> >> >> is
> >> >>> >> >> no
> >> >>> >> >> beginning. You have to start from somewhere and you don't do
> >> >>> >> >> that
> >> >>> >> >> from
> >> >>> >> >> scratch , you have your predisposition.
>
> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Lee Douglas
> >> >>> >> >> <leerev...@gmail.com>
> >> >>> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> >> >> > Sorry RP, I have to call bullshit on this as you know I would.
>
> >> >>> >> >> > You talk about genetic predisposition and envirmental learning
> >> >>> >> >> > as
> >> >>> >> >> > if
> >> >>> >> >> > these
> >> >>> >> >> > are rock solid.  Let us for just a second remember the power
> >> >>> >> >> > of
> >> >>> >> >> > words
> >> >>> >> >> > and
> >> >>> >> >> > say that a predispostion is exaclty that, not a hard solid
> >> >>> >> >> > rule
> >> >>> >> >> > and
> >> >>> >> >> > learnt
> >> >>> >> >> > behavour can of course be unlearnt.
>
> >> >>> >> >> > When a man goes to a mind doctor for reasons of what ever
> >> >>> >> >> > meantl
> >> >>> >> >> > health
> >> >>> >> >> > problems plauge him, he may be offerd CBT as an aid to getting
> >> >>> >> >> > his
> >> >>> >> >> > head
> >> >>> >> >> > back
> >> >>> >> >> > in order.  How is it that these technichs work if we are
> >> >>> >> >> > really
> >> >>> >> >> > all
> >> >>> >> >> > fully
> >> >>> >> >> > bound and fetterd by our genes and our enviroment?
>
> >> >>> >> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012
>
> ...
>
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