Until we kill them all there will be no change.. LOL did I include the churches?
Allan
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-- On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:58 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
I think at bottom we still live with a slave mentality. I have no
truck with Nietzsche's ubermensch, but rather a system of control of
leadership excess. I would over-turn employment relationships in
favour of collectives and collegiality. To try stuff like this we
need to recognise that human beings cheat and that there is behaviour
we can't tolerate. We have to try to create a freedom that is also
freedom from the worst of others. The record of people in power isn't
good, but we paint history as though it is. The BBC and even Channel
4 keep presenting he same old dross on Kings and Queens, Churchill,
Hitler and the rest. In science, Horizon keeps presenting 'brand new'
particle physics I was taught as an undergraduate forty years ago.
The truth is probably that we are stuck in out-dated beliefs. We get
people telling us we need to return to the entrepreneurial spirit of
Victorian times - child and forced labour? We need to know more about
a genuine history of emancipation.
On 5 Sep, 18:27, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are many calls for a fresh start.
>
> "Sadly, in this banana republic which employs such banana agencies as
> the SEC to do the bidding of the banana elite that matters: not
> democrats, not republicans, but Wall Street's banks full of money
> (most of it from the trillions in 2008/9 taxpayer funded bailouts),
> nothing will ever change, until the next and final crash wipes out
> everything with it and forces the system to start afresh. Only by
> eliminating the status quo, its insidious tentacles, and the enture
> existing generation of corrupt, criminal, co-opted regulators, can
> there be a chance to restore some semblance of fair and efficient
> markets.
>
> Until then, enjoy the farce of the broken Wall Street casino until
> trading volumes finally hit zero. It won't be long. At that point it
> will be too late"
>
> This particular one is from the libertarian end (Zerohedge) - the
> people who want capitalism back. The 'left' tends to agree. I tend
> to think such 'answers' are right on the assumptions of corruption but
> lack grasp of what being human could be about. We have little clue
> about such matters as how much work we need to do to sensibly maintain
> the collective and individual freedom. Instead, we have ideologies
> like work ethic and entrepreneurial innovation. In more than 2000
> years since the Athenian Democracy we have come up with little that
> prevents wealth buying votes and securing a place at the rarefied free
> table for only a few.
>
> Wittgenstein pointed out that philosophers discuss much the same old
> rot as Plato and hence a turn to how language bewitches us is needed.
> Actually, Plato made a similar point and Francis Bacon's Idols are a
> classic example. In a way were are bewitched by lies and lying makes
> language almost impenetrable. We are essentially animal and my own
> guess is that we lack much understanding of this and the extended
> phenotype. We don't think animal hierarchies are the result of social
> planning and I guess we don't understand much about how our own come
> about. Communism had a classic contradiction in centralising wealth
> as state capitalism and its Utopian statement that the state would
> wither away.
>
> Rigsy talks fairly often about a happy medium and I often think of
> this as a spreadsheet - though my background with them goes back to
> chemistry and statistical process control rather than finance. Most
> of us a familiar with simple experiments like heating stuff in a test-
> tube with a Bunsen. In more complex processes we often want to
> control ten variables to get the outcome we want. Financial systems
> that leave the one percenters with nearly all the product of effort
> remind me of out of control experiments or production processes. In
> Africa, farming is often reduced to subsistence only because are
> production that can't be hidden will be stolen. I suspect
> deregulation (some of which, when one thinks of red tape, must be
> good) is just an example of a system out of control. We have the
> design wrong.
>
> On 4 Sep, 13:24, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The new middle class in China is starving for luxury goods.
>
> > On Sep 4, 2:54 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yes I agree Neil the factory that is being run by mindful machines needs
> > > to be paying for the 2900 workers that they displace.. We both know wealth
> > > does not want that.
>
> > > I can not help but think a sub economy is developing that will not be so
> > > rediliy effected by banksters and wealth and the isolation will turn
> > > around. to were wealth will be isolated and ignored by the masses.
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:22 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > The problem is the business as usual solutions don't and can't work.
> > > > We hear stuff like bringing jobs back - but technology has changed so
> > > > much that what might once ave created 3000 jobs is now a factory run
> > > > by 100 people minding clever machines. We have been sending over half
> > > > our kids to university for a long time now - even China has a big
> > > > problem with low paid white collar workers with degrees (called the
> > > > Ant People). The investment in education still seems sound to most,
> > > > but it's not and is diverted from elsewhere. The world's highest
> > > > value company on market capitalisation makes toys.
>
> > > > My guess is the problem starts with our attitude towards work and
> > > > stealing other people's effort. I believe this is as mad as, say,
> > > > societies that slaughtered their own teenagers to satisfy fertility
> > > > gods. The problem is that we need guaranteed work programmes as a
> > > > means to share created wealth and duties to each other AND some means
> > > > through which this isn't some kind of horrible control system. For
> > > > every answer there are 'Gabby objections' (no doubt I can produce
> > > > more). About half he youth of Europe is unemployed. There is work to
> > > > do, but surely trying to turn everyone into a Santa's elf producing
> > > > neater mobile toys can;t help.
>
> > > > I'm led to believe deep confusion in our ideologies almost
> > > > automatically produces non-answers.
>
> > > > On 3 Sep, 20:09, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I have been reading this posting oddly I am lost, I know there needs to
> > > > be
> > > > > a solution.. But I do not have any ideas..
> > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I sense you've thrown the Ayn Rand baby away. But there are places she
> > > > > > discusses money and how it is an expression of value, how it represents
> > > > > > honest work, and why it deserves to be trashed when it accrues on
> > > > account
> > > > > > of efforts that are corrupt or valueless.
>
> > > > > > --
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > (
> > > > > )
> > > > > |_D Allan
>
> > > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > > > I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
> > > > > Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>
> > > > --
>
> > > --
> > > (
> > > )
> > > |_D Allan
>
> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> > > I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
> > > Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
--
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
I am a Natural Airgunner -
Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
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