Re: Mind's Eye Re: Aliens, Slavery and Resources

You see, Neil, that's exactly why I thought we have Rigsy write the
abstract and make her come out of the kitchen after her snow guy had
done his job. You have spoiled it all now!


On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:25 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've just become a paradigm case of Bill's "bored traveller" - long
> weekend with an American friend in Rome looking at art entailing the
> Vatican (which didn't spontaneously combust) - Bernini etc. There was
> a Hombeck on candle-light which will stick forever. I got the
> impression Bernini could do something in static stone that would give
> the impression of a Jimmy Johnstone dribble (he was the best ever at
> this spectacle, if not the most effective player in modern soccer
> terms). Couldn't get a coffee in the city that never sleeps at 3 a.m.
> and ended-up in a Mcdonalds. The place is a dreadful tourist rip-off
> and a week would have bankrupted us. Flight home was delayed by an
> outbreak of Italian indolence and refusal to drive the bus to the
> plane. Airport full of disgruntled Americans delayed by Sandy.
> Greece and Rome descend from slave economies and attitudes that work
> scars the soul.
> There was so much to see and it was so pleasant to walk I came home
> hobbling on a blister.
>
> Much biology is based on the economics of energy - we always seem to
> want explanation in terms of why an organism would expend the energy
> required to maintain an organ and so on. Our brains and even memory
> need justification in energy terms. Much of my own interest in the
> subject concerns desire to overcome its predestination - which these
> days would be talked about through the notion of co-evolution and its
> 'arms races'. My own guess for a long time has been we need to
> organise work differently - I favour a federal Europe (World) of a
> free table with work as a shared obligation - but one always finds
> such opinion has been held before - one example here would be the
> Strasser brothers who organised the Nazis when Hitler came out of
> jail. Politically I tend to think we are stuck in the hands of a
> rentier class much as in the inter-war years.
>
> I think some UFO-dreaming could help us understand this and even Star
> Trek touches the fringes. We might, very un-art, start by wondering
> who cleans the toilets on the Enterprise.
>
> On 29 Oct, 19:02, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Golden Way out of deference? Yes, that's probably the meaning
>> Molly is trying to convey. Thanks, Allan.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Gabby one of the major deference between me and christianity is I see
>> > God as what makes up my being,, I do not see God as being else where.
>> > I am expected to live up to my beliefs not making excuses to justify
>> > violating those rules.
>> > Allan
>>
>> > On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Oh, hi Molly! Yes, it's true, I dared to read the bible on the same
>> >> level as fairy tales. My Protestant nature, I guess. Going out,
>> >> looking out, speaking out is part of that tradition too. What is it in
>> >> your life that makes you being different?
>>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Looking for God outside oneself can lead to magical gang gods at a level
>> >>> where only the fit and corrupt survive. Many fairy tales are imbued with
>> >>> mystical thinking, including the bible.
>>
>> >>> On Monday, October 29, 2012 5:20:17 AM UTC-4, gabbydott wrote:
>>
>> >>>> I don't know why these far-away and up-above gods and godesses never
>> >>>> really made it into my heart. Maybe the down-to-earth fairy tales
>> >>>> resembled my surroundings much more. It gives me the creeps when
>> >>>> little street gangstas are referring to Nemesis and believe they have
>> >>>> got the key to the kingdom now.
>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:35 AM, rigsy03 <rig...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>> > I pray to a God everyday but am not sure which one. He is male and
>> >>>> > seems helpful. Today he bolstered my strength rearranging some
>> >>>> > furniture then rebolstered me moving stuff back as it was. However, I
>> >>>> > cooked a hearty meal of steak, potatoes and asparagus for insurance.//
>> >>>> > I think the Greek and Roman gods and goddesses represent human nature
>> >>>> > and traits- really provide some valuable insights for mere mortals.
>>
>> >>>> > On Oct 28, 12:45 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> Ah Lee, by that time you would have forgotten where you were coming
>> >>>> >> from!
>>
>> >>>> >> I like monotheism, because it supports my view of myself as an
>> >>>> >> individual. And it allows me to act upon it as such. I am aware that I
>> >>>> >> am a social being though. Polytheism would be able to account for
>> >>>> >> that, but would probably only confuse me.
>>
>> >>>> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> wrote:
>> >>>> >> > Well that is true Rigsy, and perhaps your prediction is also true.
>> >>>> >> > However
>> >>>> >> > religious faith is 'unreasonable' belief. As it is my stance that we
>> >>>> >> > all
>> >>>> >> > hold to some of these along the way, then perhaps it is a wholly
>> >>>> >> > human/sentient being trait and we'll not be rid of it, only time will
>> >>>> >> > tell.
>> >>>> >> > Just one of the reasons I want to reach at least 400 years old.
>>
>> >>>> >> > On Sunday, October 28, 2012 12:52:50 PM UTC, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> >>>> >> >> Really? What about the Italian scientists who face prison time for
>> >>>> >> >> failing to predict the severity of an earthquake? What harmony under
>> >>>> >> >> the mantle of monotheism? Science and technology will make god(s)
>> >>>> >> >> obsolete and society can still be managed through various value
>> >>>> >> >> systems based on new realities and methods of control. Presently, we
>> >>>> >> >> are trying to integrate two oppositional positions which accounts
>> >>>> >> >> for
>> >>>> >> >> a good amount of absurdity and disappointment. As extinct creatures
>> >>>> >> >> might have warned us, sentimentality is deadly.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> On Oct 28, 2:12 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> >> > I really do not see much beyond monotheism atheism holds little
>> >>>> >> >> > but
>> >>>> >> >> > wishful madness, and as for polytheism the universes would be
>> >>>> >> >> > totally
>> >>>> >> >> > different.. Just doesn't work.. You are right arrogance is a
>> >>>> >> >> > tremendous problem which I seriously doubt man will over come..
>> >>>> >> >> > those
>> >>>> >> >> > that are arrogant have little reason to change.. It is the
>> >>>> >> >> > monotheism
>> >>>> >> >> > that keeps some what harmony,, the problems I see come from man
>> >>>> >> >> > changing the laws of God that have been handed down through the
>> >>>> >> >> > generations .. It seems these changes are really designed to
>> >>>> >> >> > benefit
>> >>>> >> >> > them and their goals.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > without a singular God there would be no harmony even with in
>> >>>> >> >> > nature
>> >>>> >> >> > and the predictability of science would disappear.
>> >>>> >> >> > Allan
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:12 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >>>> >> >> > > I agree with S. W. Hawking where this is unknown territory, we
>> >>>> >> >> > > have a
>> >>>> >> >> > > tendency to being destructive and careless. We must evolve if we
>> >>>> >> >> > > wish
>> >>>> >> >> > > to
>> >>>> >> >> > > survive, boldly while trying to work out that Achilles heel
>> >>>> >> >> > > (arrogance).
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > > Allan I was thinking similarly in part, I am not so sure
>> >>>> >> >> > > monotheism is
>> >>>> >> >> > > for
>> >>>> >> >> > > everyone though. Where people can devise stories to fit a niche
>> >>>> >> >> > > in
>> >>>> >> >> > > nature,
>> >>>> >> >> > > then further reconcile from that I think there is much less to
>> >>>> >> >> > > say on
>> >>>> >> >> > > God
>> >>>> >> >> > > than people might, it may even be sacrilege to do so. In the
>> >>>> >> >> > > sense of
>> >>>> >> >> > > attempting authority on the nameless, a belligerent act so to
>> >>>> >> >> > > speak.
>> >>>> >> >> > > Agrarian civilization, centralization of authority, and cultural
>> >>>> >> >> > > homogeneity
>> >>>> >> >> > > (dare add monotheism) have allowed us to achieve major
>> >>>> >> >> > > advancements
>> >>>> >> >> > > but I
>> >>>> >> >> > > question that we are approaching or even on track with a
>> >>>> >> >> > > 'destination
>> >>>> >> >> > > truth'. It seems we are a hollow shell filled with culture, but
>> >>>> >> >> > > shouldn't it
>> >>>> >> >> > > be the other way around?!
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > > I keep looking, but I'm just not seeing that 10% innovation in
>> >>>> >> >> > > the
>> >>>> >> >> > > population, there is some serious parasitic drag somewhere in
>> >>>> >> >> > > our
>> >>>> >> >> > > equations.
>> >>>> >> >> > > Sorry so subjective tonight Al. :)
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > > On 10/26/2012 1:12 PM, Allan H wrote:
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> The foundations of most of the religions are not that far
>> >>>> >> >> > >> apart.. it
>> >>>> >> >> > >> is
>> >>>> >> >> > >> the interpretation of them that gets the idea screwed up.. It
>> >>>> >> >> > >> seems
>> >>>> >> >> > >> though that the creator places people that have a better link
>> >>>> >> >> > >> and can
>> >>>> >> >> > >> help straighten the cultures so there is hope as to maintain
>> >>>> >> >> > >> the
>> >>>> >> >> > >> same
>> >>>> >> >> > >> ideas. so I think that there us a very real possibility that
>> >>>> >> >> > >> common
>> >>>> >> >> > >> ground is available.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> poking a nd prodding out of curiosity is to be expected it is
>> >>>> >> >> > >> called
>> >>>> >> >> > >> curiosity.
>> >>>> >> >> > >> Allan
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> On Oct 26, 2012 3:18 PM, "Lee Douglas" <leerevdoug...@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> >> > >> <mailto:leerevdoug...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> Ohhh I don't know Andrew.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> As I have said we can of course speculate on all sorts of
>> >>>> >> >> > >> things
>> >>>> >> >> > >> about alien life, but seeing as we can only ever think
>> >>>> >> >> > >> about from
>> >>>> >> >> > >> our particular species POV, I question how useful such
>> >>>> >> >> > >> speculation
>> >>>> >> >> > >> would be. I think the most logical deduction we could make
>> >>>> >> >> > >> is to
>> >>>> >> >> > >> say 'Well I really don't know', and that is indeed my line.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> Heh of course having said that and in the spirit of pure
>> >>>> >> >> > >> speculation, given that our current understanding of
>> >>>> >> >> > >> universal
>> >>>> >> >> > >> principles, and laws of physics etc.. seem to encompass the
>> >>>> >> >> > >> totality
>> >>>> >> >> > >> of the universe, I do not think it incorrect to draw some
>> >>>> >> >> > >> speculative conclusions.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> Would alien lifeforms be carbon based as on our planet? I
>> >>>> >> >> > >> suspect probably yes, but there are reasons enough to
>> >>>> >> >> > >> suppose
>> >>>> >> >> > >> otherwise also.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> Would then non carbon life forms form different morality
>> >>>> >> >> > >> than
>> >>>> >> >> > >> carbon
>> >>>> >> >> > >> based life forms? Umm well I'm going with 'I don't know'
>> >>>> >> >> > >> for
>> >>>> >> >> > >> this
>> >>>> >> >> > >> one, as I lack an in depth understanding of neurology.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> As a theist who believes in a single creator God though I
>> >>>> >> >> > >> would
>> >>>> >> >> > >> have
>> >>>> >> >> > >> to agree with Allan.
>>
>> >>>> >> >> > >> A large part of my struggle is with the message of God.
>> >>>> >> >> > >> Trying
>> >>>> >> >> > >> to
>> >>>> >> >> > >> recompense different religions with this single message is
>> >>>> >> >> > >> hard.
>> >>>> >> >> > >> I
>> >>>> >> >> > >> try to imagine that all religions are valid and look for
>> >>>> >> >> > >> the similarities, I rather suspect as I grow I will have to
>> >>>> >> >> > >> claim
>> >>>> >> >> > >> that some are wholly false and man made whilst others are
>> >>>> >> >> > >> the direct message from God albeit fucked with by mankind
>> >>>> >> >> > >> for his
>> >>>> >> >> > >> own nefarious ends(Christianity for example). So
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
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